atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Outside Plant OSP Construction Connecting Two Bldgs w/ 50 pair wire

I've already connected a 50 pair wire btw two buildings and on either end have two PortaSystems Gas filled punch down blocks. The wire is outdoor rated and I also put Plastic conduit around it for added protection. It's buried over 2' in the ground and I have the metal sheath grounded to 3 lightning rods on both buildings. I am still getting "spikes" from lightning cause it is taking out my Merlin Legend MLX-16DP phones at about 3/storm. I would have thought those expensive PortaSystem punch down blocks would take care of it but I am a novice and I guess I need additional lightning protection. Please Help and try to use whole words because I am not in this field and don't know all that shorthand "jargon" on the other posts. Thanks for the help!

First question I have, is the phone system grounded to the same source as the cable sheath? If that answer is yes, take a volt meter and read from the power ground (you can use the ground of a grounded outlet) to your system ground, you should read near zero ohms, not more than 5 ohms. If this is also true, what voltage are your porta systems protectors? If they are the high voltage and the only thing on them are the phones use a low voltage protector. Don't use low voltage on the CO lines or anything other than your low voltage digital phones. Hope this helps

Is it taking out the phones only, not the ports too? Are these phones only out across this feeder? If they are and the system/ports aren't getting hit then I would check the bonding/grounding at the far end.
Justbill is ...so very correct! How many times I've had to explain to a customer who purchased Porta equipment, or the like, and didn't purchase the low-voltage modules.
Lightning is very fast,very dangerous, and always unforgiving.

I am a novice and I guess I need additional lightning protection. Please Help and try to use whole words because I am not in this field and don't know all that shorthand "jargon" on the other posts.

Best whole words I can give you is to hire someone who IS in the "field". If this were easy to do and all you needed was available on the internet you wouldn't be having a lightning problem.

Each case is different and we can't see what you have, what you have done and how you did it. All three are vital and without actually being there to evaluate there is no way anybody here can give you any advice that would be meaningful.

This is costing you money. Stop wasting it by thinking that this is a do-it-yourself project.

-Hal

Hal has a very good point.

This started in the Avaya Forum, moved to equipment repair (he has a few smoked phones), then I suggested that he come here.
It is only the phones at the remote location getting taken out, not the ports. I should have realized that it had to be on the remote end grounding/lightning protection.
In my defense, I can only offer that we specialize in fixing the phones once the lightning has hit and do not install them.

I'm betting he has a difference in potential from his equipment ground to the sheath ground. The low voltage protectors should help, but as Hal says find the cause first.

Nothing like getting a rear end chewing from Hal.
The porta sytems protector is a model 581 P2. The sales representative at GrayBar said this would be sufficient for my phones and phone system. Yes only the phones are getting smoked not the ports. The ohm reading was 0.0.

If all grounds are equal to the power neutral than the only thing it can be is inductive to the cable pairs in between the buildings. Use the low voltage protectors on the digital phones and ground any unused pairs in the cable. What you are describing is a difference in ground potential, but your ohm reading says you don't have one. The 581 P2 is the whole terminal without the protectors, the 581 series has 250v 75v and 350v modules, you'd want the 75. Again you just want these for the digital phones, nothing else. One more thing, even though you're not indicating a difference in potential, it's sure acting like one so make sure all grounds are bonded together, I'd about bet they are not. Also you say "3 lightning rods" Do you mean ground rods that the building lightning protection is grounded to?

You said you connected the two buildings. My question would be, was this system up and running PRIOR to connecting the two buildings? Where I'm going with this is, perhaps the spike has nothing to do with the underground construction. You may have the front door bolted, but left the upstairs window open.

Panamax/Towermax makes IROBs (In Range Out of Building)surge protectors specifically for the ATT/Lucent/Avaya product line. Those system sets need more protection then your gas tubes can provide.

PS I gotta agree with Hal here. Why does everbody think what we do is some darn easy - do it yourself until they do it and it doesn't work!

I'm just happy if my Graybar rep can find the part number I'm looking for.

Well, I might as well add my two-cents here. First of all, the 581 series of protectors are not true primary protection devices. The manufacturer claims they are, and I see hundreds of them out there as primary protectors, but they just plain and simply AREN'T. They are fine for secondary protection as is indicated by the way they are constructed.

They don't have a sealed splice chamber or compartment to contain the gel-filled cable. It is improper (and illegal) to punch down a gel-filled cable directly on a block. It must be contained within a UL listed enclosure. That requirement by itself rules out the legitimacy in using the 581's in your situation.

What needs to be installed is a TRUE building entrance terminal, one made by TII, Emerson Network Power or even Porta Systems. These need to be equipped with gas or solid-state protector modules. The entrance terminal must be grounded to the same exact point that the building's electrical service is grounded. This must be done using a #6 copper conductor minimum. Three ground rods, especially if they are not bonded together (and to the electrical service, water/gas piping and building frame) are plain and simply asking for problems.

Then, a reasonable distance of inside wiring (I prefer to provide a bit of separation, at least 25 feet) needs to be run from the primary protection in the building entrance terminal to the secondary protector, A.K.A. the Porta Systems 581 block. Once this block is equipped with 75 volt protector modules, you will have a truly protected underground cable installation.

If you do have a 50 pair gel-filled cable that is punched-down directly on 581 units, you do not have a professional installer. The original installer does not know what they are doing. It has already been mentioned here that this work isn't as simple as it seems. That is why we are here to assist.

I suggest that you contact a professional telephone/CATV cable contractor (there's a separate listing in the Yellow Pages for this). If you can't find one, try to see who your local phone company is using as a sub contractor for outside cable installation. The phone company won't tell you who it is; you will just need to keep an eye out for a truck with someone working on a pole that is not the local power, cable or telephone cable company. If all else fails, try to locate a local Henkels & McCoy office. They do this stuff nationwide for telephone companies and they seem to know what they are doing.

You really do seem to be losing a lot of money because of an unprofessionally-installed protection system. It will probably cost over a thousand dollars to do it right, but it seems to be adding up for your business already. Maybe it's time to finally get it done right.

I sure hope that you take this as guidance and not criticism. Lots of companies out there can install phone systems and make them work well, but when outside cable is involved, the whole playing field changes.

As usual Ed you've added something I didn't even think about and that's the proper closure for this set up. I was concentrating on the bonding only. Even if he doesn't have the proper entrance terminal for the cable, if everything is properly bonded and rated he shouldn't be having the trouble he is, at least in my opinion. He is getting a foreign voltage on the pairs that feed the phones and just from the description of what is happening it sounds to me like the grounds are not equal. I knew we could count on you to set us straight.

Gee, if words were money we'd all be broke if that was Ed's two cents worth.

Git back on the porch, Uncle Lonnie! Doesn't your court order restrict you from associating with other convicted felons?

OK, that was tacky, but hey, I had to change my avatar since you stole mine and I needed an identity.

Okay, girls, let's ply nice !

Since Ed used up two cents, leaving me only a red cent ($.001) here it is.

All the above PLUS make sure the cathatic protection and lightning grounding system have the same potiental. Depending on the situation the cathatic tied to red iron can go "high" and cause issues.

Just a thought.

KLD.

I have seen installs put both the outside cable and the inside cable on the same side of the block. They thinks it looks nice... But this unit has a in and out side to it so that the protector works properly. I would make sure that the unit is installed correctly...

Another good point. I assumed it was wired in correctly.

Try using IROB'S on both ends