sundance-communications.com/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Kind of urgent ISDN-BRI help needed

We have a recent ISDN installation with about 30 stations. All went well, except that one circuit supporting two stations won't work. We are using Tone Commander equipment, brand-new, purchased directly from the manufacturer.

We can get one phone on either port of the NT unit to work fine. We SPID the same phone back and forth between the ports and the numbers and it works fine. It is when we try to get two phones to work where as soon as the second phone is set up, it kills the paired station.

We have transferred this same BRI circuit to another known working NTU and phone pair. The complete replacement equipment demonstrates the exact same issue; the circuit isn't working properly.

The problem is clearly in the configuration of the circuit. My belief is that the B channels are bonded, resulting in there not being one available for a second station. Both are being sent to one station. When another station tries to share the same D channel, there isn't a B channel available.

As usual, Verizon swears that there is nothing wrong. We have spent three weeks going to the site and meeting with them for "vendor meets". We have shown their technicians that this exact equipment works on another circuit, but they simply don't care. The customer is withholding final payment, plus suspending a second project until this issue is resolved.

In summary, I need some buzz words to throw at Verizon since 99.9999997 percent of their employees simply don't understand their job or care if we don't get paid.

Rent a T Berd???
Make them put thier test unit on the circuit and demo 2 channels?

You can use an ISDN modem. Both b channels will be broken out at the phone jacks.

It's been over 3 years since I've looked at any BRI translations so things probably have changed. Based on what you said, in my mind, the trouble appears to stay with the Verizon ckt. I'm assuming that someone in a Center or Central Office would have done a stare and compare between the defective ckt and one that works. If they haven't, they should. If it is a 5ESS switch there are many fields to populate. If they have already verified the defective circuit against a good one, my suggestion would be to delete the defective ckt entirely from the switch. I've seen troubles where everything appears correct but the line won't perform as it's supposed to. Deleting it and building it back fixed the problem. Build it back in using a Change Insert function with one of the working circuits. This allows the tech to build the new ckt by using a working circuit as a template. You change only the fields that are unique to the new ckt. Another thought would be a defective OE. Maybe you could have the OE changed just to eliminate it as a source of trouble. Does the circuit come to you on copper or is it served by a pair gain system? Perhaps a bad channel unit. Good luck.

I have to agree sounds like a bad card in the verizon channel unit, or a translations issue...and I am almost sure no one in Verizon has done a STare and compare. Chances are this service is being provided off of a SLC so a bad line card is a real good posibility. If you have an ISDN test set you can try going right to the hand off, SPID the test set and see if it works, during a vendor meet this SHOULD prove the trouble to the lec. I do not think a t-berd will help, I do not think it will break down the bri into the two channels. Deleting the translation and rebuilding it using a change insert from a working line is the way to go as BF6B5yr said...assuming this comes out of a 5ess...good luck Ed

The circuts definately arrive on copper. It's also service on a 5E9 with custom Centrex. All Verizon has done is connect their test equipment and verify the validity of the channels. They haven't given us the opportunity to demonstrate that the circuit doesn't work on known good equipment that is working on another circuit. We arrange for vendor meets with them, yet they manage to come and go before we arrive for the scheduled appointment time. It's an inner-city location, so I seriously doubt that the circuits are coming in through a SLC. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen SLC or other pair gain equipment in that area (Downtown DC).

Have you started escalting with them? by the time you get to a 3rd or 4th level you should at least be able to get the meet set up. Removing and rebuilding this in the switch would be a great idea, but I doubt they will do that until you prove it is not your issue. The only other thing I can say is set up a meet and just have a tech sit their all day and wait, it is a huge waste of time and money but at least you will be able to see the lec tech, then make him prove dt on both lines

I have had two techs out there who have literally connected phones directly to the NT-1 and only one or the other works. Independently, they work fine. As soon as the second set is connected, it's as if there is a short on the circuit; both phones die (they still have power, just no communication with the CO).

No, I haven't escalated this yet. These same two technicians are going to the site first thing on Monday to demonstrate this in front of the customer so that he can escalate this matter himself. It sounds a lot better when the customer does it, especiallly after he has seen that we are not wrong. God, I hope we aren't wrong....

I do not see how this could be your trouble, especially if it does not work at the NT-1. As long as your phone is properly SPID you should be fine. I am going with either a bad lec card or translations...Good luck

If you can get your hands on a protocol analyzer, you can trap messages on the "D" channel and see what is being passed back & forth between the CPE and Verizon.