sundance-communications.com/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Answering Machine Problem

Hi,

I have POTS to a condo (multiple units) and have no problems with telephone calls.
Over the past 6 years I have been using DSL on the phone line with some problems.
Service was good for 3 years and then it would cut in/out.
I had a technician come out and install a DSL NID splitter and that solved my problems.
That was over a year ago.
Phone and DSL service has been fine since.

In the condo I have two wall jacks one for DSL and the other for the phone line.
The phone line coming out of the jack goes to a DSL filter and then to a Caller ID box.
From there it goes to an answering machine and then to a wired analog phone.
This setup has been working for me.

In the past week the answering machine has stopped working (DSL continues to work fine). The problem is it will not pick up on a call. The phone will ring and ring but the answering machine will not pick it up no matter how many times it rings. I am using a GE 2-9869 answering machine.

I went out and purchased another answering machine and it also exhibited the same problem. I had a friend take both machines to their house and they worked there. So the answering machines are good.
I have plugged the answering machine directly into the phone jack with and without the DSL filter with no success. I have also tried other phone jacks in the condo with no luck.

What could be causing this problem?
How can I troubleshoot this?
The phone company of course says my line tests fine and that there have been no changes made on their part.

Thanks!

Since you're in a condo you probably don't know where your DEMARC is. So assuming that unplug all you phones, plug your answering machine into a known good jack and call it from a cell phone or have a friend call and see if it answers, I assume all phone ring ok as they always have. If it works that way start plugging in phones one at a time until it quits, you may not be getting enough ringing current to operate the amount of equipment you have on the line. If this works add up the REN, which will be on each device, if it's less than 5 tell the phone company you need the ringing voltage/current tested.

Thanks JustBill for your information.

I do know where my DEMARC is but it looks really old and does not have a RJ11 test jack on it.

I unplugged all my phones in the condo and then plugged the answering machine into a known good jack (no other devices were plugged in) and made a call to it (via a cell phone).
This did not work. The machine did not pick up.

All phones have always rang ok in the condo and have no problems ringing/making calls/and disconnecting when someone hangs up.

The answering machine has a REN of 0.0.
I only have two phones that are plugged in with the answering machine.
One phone has a REN of 2.3B the other phone has a REN of 1.0B.

If all phones work correctly the only thing you have left between you and the DEMARC is the DSL splitter, don't know why that would cause this. Next step is to test from the DEMARC with the splitter out of the picture. If you can wire a plain o' standard jack with two wires, one to the green and the other to the red and remove all wiring from the DEMARC and put your two wires from the jack on the lugs of the DEMARC call it, if it works put the wiring back and put it on the phone side of the splitter, if that works you have some kind of wiring problem between the splitter and your phone jack. I'm thinking split pair, but that should also make your phones act up, like cross talk or no ring trip or something.

Sounds like your ring voltage is right on the edge of spec. Some things may work and others, like your answering machine, won't. Contrary to what your telco says it is their problem. Problem is you have to prove it. Are you capable of measuring the ring voltage with a DVM? It should be around 90 VAC.

If this is not something you can do I would hire someone (who knows what they are doing) to do this for you.

-Hal

I had this same problem at a customers home. But what I found was Verizon had install a new terminal that was feed with fiber. Basicly the terminal was a type of mux that coverted the fiber to copper and them sent to the homes in the area. I had done this just as a favor but when it came time for the vendor meet and all I had to agree with Verizon and told him maybe Voicemail from them would be the best solution. Never did get the answering machine to work again.

It's the same problem we have with Partner extensions. The older releases gave you close to 90V. The new ones something like 78.

-Hal

Find a condo with a sympathetic tenant (shouldn't be hard to find...everybody hates the phone company) that is nearby, and prove to your satisfaction that the answering machine will answer.

Then schedule a repair visit with telco. Demonstrate the problem in your condo, and the fact that the machine works elsewhere, to the repair tech.

Ask him to measure the incoming ring voltage. Ask him to explain why it's happening. And ask him to get it fixed to your satisfaction, or you will be contacting the state public utilities commission.

I tested the answering machine at the DEMARC (without the splitter) and the answering machine did not pick up when the phone number was called.

It is a mess at my DEMARC nothing but punch down blocks.

Hbiss; I did some measurements with a DVM but I am not that savvy with electronics so I am not sure about my numbers.
I measured line voltage and ring voltage both at the telephone jack in the condo and at the DEMARC location (with everything else unplugged). I was expecting a difference in the measurements but they both came out to be about same.

Line Voltage in both locations was a steady 45.4 VDC
Ring Voltage was highly variable on my DVM and ranged from 54 – 77 VAC.

77 VAC was the max that I was getting on my measurements and it was not always peaking at 77 VAC sometimes it was lower when ringing.

I tried to put a capacitor in the measurement to filter out the DC put it did not help in stabilizing the variation in numbers that were being read.

Arthur; I did not try the answering machine in a neighbors condo yet.
I did try the answering machine at a friend’s house just to make sure that the answering machines actually work.

Can I just call up the phone company and tell them to increase the line voltage? Or is 77 VAC normal?

If you can't try what Arthur suggested, just tell the phone company what you just said, It works at a friends house but not mine. I'm betting your on some kind of subscriber carrier that has a bad card. If you have a kindly neighbor that would be the best. That way you could do as Arthur suggested. "See phone guy, it works here, but not here"

The ringing voltage is superimposed on the DC line voltage, that's the way it works, around here that would be low, but if it rings two phones it should be enough for the answering machine. More like a line supervision problem.

Bottom line, you can tell them, bad at the DEMARC.

The reason you got such a variation of ring voltage is the Digital multimeter. It takes a 'sample' and then shows what it got. The sample is so quick it can get the measurement during the rise or fall of the ringing sine wave! It could actually take a sample when the sine is crossing the zero line and you'd get 0 volts ringing. Analog meter is always easier to use when measuring ac voltage. Confusion factor!
And most meters are calibrated are calibrated for 60 Htz. Ringing is normally 20 Htz. What should read as 90-110 volts will read as approximately 70 volts. Another confusion factor!
One more thing, if the answering machine has an REN of 0.0, it will never answer, as that indicates no ringer load and not arranged to answer the phone. You may have 2 REN's quoted. one will end with an 'A' and the other will end with a 'B'. One indicates mechanical ringer, the other indicates electronic ringer. (I never can remember which is which)
So now that I've added to the your confusion, I'll crawl back in my hole. John C. (Not Garand)

Lightninghore: Thank you for the information.

I did use a digital RMS Multimeter. It does not plot out the sine waves so I just took many measurements and picked the highs and the lows. So are you saying that a high measurement using a digital multimeter of 77 VAC for the ring voltage is really 90-110 VAC and thus my ring voltage is not low?

I have two answering machines to test with. One of them has a REN of 0.0B and the other one (brand new) has a REN of 0.2B. Both do not ring on my phone line but do work. I am not sure why the one shows 0.0B but it says that on the bottom and also in the FCC registration number.

Now my DSL connection is starting to act up. It disconnects and then re-connects. When it does this my phone cuts out completely.
I called the phone company and they are sending someone out this Thursday. Will wait and see. I think whatever is happening is on their end and it is getting worse.

Well the phone tech was to come out Thursday but did not.
Now the phone company has them scheduled to come out Saturday.

The tech came out and also measured the ring voltage on the line at the DEMARC and got an even lower number than I did.

After some measurements the tech then went out to where the phone lines come into the neighborhood across the street and switched the pair of wires going to my building to another pair.

That fixed the problem. Answering machine works and DSL is now stable.

Thanks to everyone for help on this matter.

Thanks for getting back to us with the end result. Always nice to know that it all worked out & why.

Dave