atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Panasonic Telephones & Systems T1-PRI & Panasonic D500

Can anyone help me in solving Time Slipping on D500? The PBX is having an issue with clock slipping every 2-3 weeks. Lately, it seems be happening every week. 2 PBXs are linked in a master-slave setting. The master PBX is set for network clock. When the master sees the time slipping, it uses its own clock acting like a master clock. We cannot receive/send fax. Is this T1 issue? Or, PBX timing issue? I'm wondering whether we should change the T1 carrier.

Most likely a carrier issue.
Escalate and get supervisor at test center.
Was it working with same carrier and then problem started? Many times its hard to get carrier tech to admit it is them or even know what to do to correct.

Have you seen anything besides slips? Do you have a way to monitor the T-1 or can the LEC monitor it? If this is PBX to PBX there is no network clock in it so if you are purely having slips it can't be the LEC.

The only way the LEC would be giving you timing is if this were a very old circuit installed prior to CPE providing timing, which I highly doubt.

Then the main should not be set to network?
Is this a networked system or 2 cabinets at 1 site.?

Not if it's PBX to PBX. There is no line to sync off of.

This is a three year on-going issue. First 8 months, they came to our site and tested everything that they can think of from both T1 carrier and PBX vendor. T1 carrier installed Adtran to monitor the line remotely, as well. Without the network clock, these 2 PBX run wild, and FAX will not work. When the problem re-occur, I can reset the PBX side by disconnecting the link to the slave PBX. The Master PBX will try to sync with T1 clock. The slave PBX is located in the next building from us. We use this for intercom.

I hope I answered all the questions. Also, the time slipping is happening to other PBX in one of our building from the same T1 carrier. The PBX is manufactured by Toshiba. This PBX is not the one I mentioned about these 2 PBX (Master & Slave). It is completely a different PBX box. The same error happening on this PBX. Since the Toshiba PBX is not linked to T1-PRI, just a T1 analog, the problem is not recognized by users.

Guess we need more info. I thought he meant 2 cabinets with 1 t1, not a point to point;
After re-reading I think I am CORNFUUZZED!

I don't know Panasonic and they may have different terms, but you can't time off the network when there is no network there. A point to point T-1 has no network source. So the first thing that needs to be understood as brokeda says is this a point to point, or does it teminated in some phone company equipment?

In my office, I have a T1 circuit box.
The T1 is going into the master PBX (Panasonic D500), from the D500, there is a line coming out the D500 connected to another PBX (Slave, this is another panasonic, but I don't know the model #) in other building where terminated. The Slave PBX is there so that we can use extensions to call their phones.

The Toshiba PBX with the same T1 carrier (not PRI) is generating "Dialer Failure". Dial Tone leaves, and the error is generated. It seems to be happening at the same time the D500 timing slipping.

When I said "Network Clock", what I meant T1 system clock. Sorry, my profession is not in telephone.

PBX vendor says, T1 is loosing system clock; therefore, time slipping is happening.

If you are PBX to PBX, as stated above, and the only problem is slips you have a timing issue in your PBX.

Are you talking about these 2 PBXs (Panasonics' with Master and Slave)?

Yes. Slips and again I stress, if slips only then this is not a LEC problem.

How can we explain the "Dialer Failure" errors generated in Toshiba PBX, then?

What two PBX's are tied together with the T-1?

Yes. But, the same T1 carrier provides a separate T1 line to the Toshiba PBX. The Toshiba is generating "Dialer Failure" errors almost at the same time as when the D500 looses clock.

By the way, I do not think our current T1 carrier is a LEC. It's not one of bells if I know the definition of the LEC. It's competing with the LEC.

Let me re-state what I said earlier:

PBX vendor says, PBX D500 is loosing clock; therefore, time slipping is happening

Answer to Brokeda: We changed T1 to PRI back in 2006 since we needed Caller ID capability. Prior to the change, I don't think the problem was so significant. We noticed sometime we get line cutoff during the phone conversation though. The day we switched to PRI, the problem became severe. They ran loop testing many many times, but they never nailed it.

You've stated that. What I asked is what PBX is on each end of the T-1. I don't want to put words in your mouth, I want you to tell me what brand and model on each end.

T1-> Panasonic D500 -> Panasonic (I don't know the model #)-> Terminate

Analog line -> Toshiba PBX -> Terminate

Both lines are provided by the same T1 carrier.
By looking at their invoice, I still need to confirm with vendor what "Analog Line" (it says Basic Service on our bill).

If you are tying two Panasonic PBX's together with a T-1 and from one of those Panasonic PBX's you have analog lines to a Toshiba PBX the T-1 has nothing to do with your dial failures as it's not even in the picture. Unless I'm still not following you and if that's the case I'll back out and let someone chime in who may understand it all.

Bottom line a T-1 PBX to PBX that is slipping is not going to be a LEC or any other carriers problem.

To eliminate the confusion, please disregard the Analog line connecting to the Toshiba. I just want to find out the time slipping issue.

T1 is tied to Panasonic D500. The D500 is loosing clock.

Are you using a CSU?
Have you tried changing the KX-T 96187 T1 card?
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MrG

Let me find out from the PBX vendor about CSU & T1 card. Will get back to you tomorrow.

I am still CORNFUUZZED.
Is The T1 used as a point to point to tie the pbxs together and then also pulling trunks out of it/
If this is so I would try a new T1 card in Main as Mr G suggested.
This could turn into a Redneck think tank project, but were trying.
And yes you should have a CSU.

I think the PBX vendor already replaced the T1 card with a new in the D500 PBX. T1 from outside our building is connected to a SmartJack (circuit box), it then connected to the D500 PBX, and the line continues to another Panasonic PBX (slave) where it terminates. What is the CSU anyway?

The T-1(96187) IS the point to point(2 PBXs) which is connected to the fiber boxes.

You're running all over the place. Just exactly how far is it between these two PBX's that are tied together with a Point to Point T-1.

Do the trunks come from the T1 that ties the 2 PBX together.
You have fax problems sending to outside faxes? or just to other building.?
CSU = Channel Service Unit. Think of it as a line conditioner. Panasonic requires it on any T1 or PRI.
More advanced CSU's have stats and diagnostics.

What are the fiber boxes for?
You say you switched to PRI in 2006 but are talking about a T1 card. Pri is 50290.
Do you have a PRI for trunks and then a P2P t1 for connecting 2 switches???

The FAX problems are: Cannot fax out to external telephone numbers, and cannot receive fax from outside the company.

I'm also getting info about the T1 carrier that they implemented VOIP in 2006. Doesn't matter whether T1 is PRI or not, separate T1s in different buildings are generating errors. It seems to be happening early in the morning or over weekends, etc.

Everything matters in trouble shooting.

Troubleshooting where? T1 Carrier? Or, PBX Vendor?

Any remote tech support can't figure out squat unless you can impart to them the exact setup you are working with. I still don't understand the setup you have and I don't think anyone else watching this thread does either. You ask for help, we have to ask questions, and receive answers. Just trying to help.

I'm still trying to find out myself. Purchasing hires PBX vendors, we are not in loop. They come in changes environment, we don't know what's going on. There is no one from technical side looking after the company's phone lines. I'm basically cleaning up a mess.