atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Vodavi Telephones & Systems STSe Fax detect

Anyone else using this? I have one that wasn't detecting the fax tone, I checked incoming levels and signal all was good. I plugged my butt set right into the fax ext and nothing, wasn't transferring fax to the ext. After system reset it works again, but this is the second time. So just wondering if anyone else is having this trouble?

We use it at our office Bill. Seems to work fine.

So, do you mean that you get no dial tone on x148 (or 149) when you plug your buttset it?

Is the voice mail answering this line?

There is dial tone, but the fax detect circuit doesn't transfer the call to 148 until after I reset it, this is with everything removed and only my butt set plugged into the SLT jack. Once I reset seems to work fine for awhile, this is the second time so hoping this will cure it, if not I'll see what Vodavi Tech support says. And yes the VM will answer the line, but only after it times out on the time set for fax detect. On the CO line I hear the fax tone, you can hear it hit the detect circuit, but it just rings until time out than rings the CO line on the set. Does all that makes sense?

well after several test faxes before leaving, just tried it and it's failing again. Guess I'll go out tomorrow and put the fax ahead of the system until tech support can figure it out.

Bill:

There are some parameters that may need to be modified in the "PBX integration" screen but I can't remember what. I know it's some strange-looking stuff, but it's in the manual. Do you have a manual? They actually address this in relatively good detail, so it may be fixable.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but are you positive that the card was initialized prior to installation? This sounds like a classic case of the random issues that arise when they aren't initialized. I think I know that you did do it, so you might want to double-check the comments in the descriptions of the PBX integration settings in the manual.

If you want to give me a call tomorrow, I should be available all day. Just PM me and I will send you my number.

Thanks Ed I'll check it out. Yes the system was initialized on install.

Didn't find much under PBX, PBX integration parameters can only be done by laptop which I don't have. I checked CO line levels today and they were good, I'm going to check all other CO line parameters tomorrow. If all that is good going to put fax ahead of system until I can figure this out, good thing they don't get a lot of faxes. I do have a fax detect unit I can put on if push comes to shove.

Bill, one other thing. A lot of people don't just dial a fax number and hit the "start" button like they should. This sends the CNG tone immedately.

I personally wait until I hear the receiving fax before I hit the start button. In doing this, I am pretty much defeating anyone's automatic detection for fax calls.

On a long shot, could it just be people like me who wait until they hear the fax answer before they hit the start button? If so, that pretty much sums it up.

I think you are wasting your time checking line levels, etc. Fax machines are pretty tolerant to just about anything these days.

If you have a modem card in that STS and it's connected to the in-skin, I will be happy to look at the system from here. Just let me know.

Ya I'd already thought of that an when they said it wasn't I tried sending one. I am getting the fax tone at the 66 block, it's just not being recognized. Doesen't have a modem in it, but thanks for the offer. If all CO line parameters check out I'm going to call Vodavi just in case this is a known problem, if it is I'll post it and the fix (if they know). Already checked their tech pubs and didn't see anything. As far as CO line parameters go I was thinking maybe the Vodavi fax detect circuit may be sensitive to line conditions more than the fax. I really think I'm going to find them good, but want to have the info just in case Vodavi asks.

So, you're using the voice mails fax detect? The STSe also has a built in Fax Detect circuit, but the STS did not.

We use the KSU's Fax Detect, not the voice mails. I suggest you try it also and see if it helps your problem.

It's under Flash 40 (pg 184 of the program manual). This works more like the old automatic fax switches.

Yes Ed, we run into that all the time on the Partners.

They dedect fax CNG, but if the other waits to hear the fax it won't work.

That's why we all hate fax switches!!

Larry,
No I'm using the KSU's fax detect circuit, It's just when it times out on the detect circuit it than rings the phone (attendant in this case) than after the phone rings the pre designated time it than goes to the VM as programmed in pre-set call forward.

Vodavi suggest adjusting the CO line levels up or down to see if that cures it. I don't think that will do it as levels to a milliwatt are good, but I will try as suggested. They also stated it may just be a bad unit so I'll let ya know what happens. FYI: I'm just going to adjust levels, I'm not going to reset cause I know that cures it for awhile.

Bill, I have to tell you that I have rarely seen adjustments in CO line levels ever cure something like this. It's their shoot from the hip solution for a lot of things. I've only seen this actually help with VERY few voice mail volume issues.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but since your problem is sporadic, it's going to be really hard to keep adjusting it up or down and actually know if it really had any effect. I think the only way to know for sure what's happening is to run an event trace either with a laptop or via a modem. The problem with that is you would just have to leave the trace running (possibly for days) which would require a laptop be left on-site or tie up one of their lines (and yours) throughout this process.

I will check some of the recent tech support bulletins that have been issued to see if there's anything addressed. We get them monthly and I usually don't pay much attention to the STS items because there usually aren't any. If I find anything, I will let you know.

I am tending to lean toward the possibility of a bad KSU. I know that you and I aren't Rockefellers, so if you want to PM me, we can discuss some possible replacement options we can work with.

Thanks again Ed, I have to agree, but must try. As far as KSU goes, it's under warranty so no problem there.

i know i've seen the station co handset volume cause issue on faxes before. Have you tried turning up the co handset volume on the slt port?

If not make an outside call from your but set or fax handset and when the call is connected flash it dial 638 then dial 0 thru 9(0 being the lowest volume) and then you will here a confirmation tone.

Thanks oobie, not getting that far. The fax detect never transfers the call to slt extention assigned when not working.

FYI: This seems to be corrected. What I did was start one at a time removing any feature associated with the CO line that points to the fax detect circuit. The last thing (or combination of?) that seems to have corrected this problem was I changed the CO line ringing assignment to the main admin phone ( CO line associated w/fax detect) to days only (comes default d/n). I had previously determined that the fax detect would work flawlessly until put manually into night mode. After it failed it would not work again until I'd done a system reset. Hope this saves someone else some grief. I could go back and start putting things back to see if it was a combination of things, but I've already spent enough time on this trouble that can't happen (per Vodavi).

Well worked fine for over a month an a half, now it's back to it's old tricks. Monday I'm removing everything associated with the 2nd line, not that there's much left, and I'm sure it will fail again. Then I'll call Vodavi for a new KSU, since no one else has seen this trouble it must just be a defective fax detect unit on the KSU. Just wanted to update y'all.

Do you have any additional devices on this line
that you are trying fax detect circuit on?
(adsl/dsl)??

No. Right now after system reset it's working again, but this isn't right and a customer shouldn't have to put up with it.

Agree,I would try new KSU.

Thanks for the input STSE. If anyone else has heard of this problem I'd sure like to hear it and the fix of course. I'm sure it's the KSU, but would be nice to have some backup when I call Vodavi. I've never had to replace one yet so don't know how it will go.

Just wanted to add this. Per the customer last time it failed they received a fax and immediately after that fax the phone rang on the fax detect line and it was another fax. It than wouldn't work again until system reset.

I would not rule out call ID card as it bridges with co trk ckt.

Regardless,there is only one way to cure this
eliminate the KSU by replacing it.

We are Installers, not Engineers.

Unfiltered DSL line can give your CNG detect
ckt. problems at times.

Before you replace KSU have you reinitialized it


Kelly

No, this was a new install and system was initialized when installed. I will let Vodavi make that call since I'm pretty sure I've got a bad fax detect circuit. I have already talked to Vodavi and they have never heard of the problem and they could only think it may be a defective KSU. This is one drawback to having everything on one pack, but I'm sure they know that. Thanks for the post and welcome to the board.
Bill

Called Vodavi, they feel it's a bad KSU also. Since I have no spare they are sending me a KSU so I can send this one in for warranty work, they are being very fair about the new KSU. Just wanted to fill y'all in.

:bang:

I went through hoops with one customer who wanted this feature enabled. It just doesn't work properly, the problem is that when enable it answers the call and waits a preset (short or long) ammount of time for an initial handshake from the calling fax machine and if the machine doesn't give it then it let's the fax go through to the normal ring assignment. So if the machine that is calling is waiting for a handshake from the machine being called and doesn't initiate, the call fails and the feature doesn't work. Two months on 1.5 hour round trips to finally figure that out. Ugh. Recommend to the customer that they keep their fax line outside of the system.

~Chris
:bang:

CNG is getting to the fax detect. It just quits detecting until system reset, than it will work awhile again. Even Vodavi admits this is a defect in the fax detect circuit and since no one else has heard of this problem I don't think it's rampant. New KSU on the way.

NEW KSU NEW FAX PROBLEM!!
Well folks I know some of you have said you've used the STSe's fax detect circuit, but I'd have to say I'll never try again. To sum up OLD problem: fax would work for awhile than the detect circuit would quit detecting fax and just ring until it transferred, system reset would fix it for awhile. NEW problem get a couple faxes than fax extension just starts ringing, trip it, get DT hang up (from buttset, fax removed) starts ringing again. System reset, works a few times than back to ringing until system reset. I have had it, calling Vodavi Monday to see if they will wave all the fees for this new KSU when I send it back. This has cost me a lot of money and time, I would NOT recommend the internal fax detect circuit when selling this unit. So now I give them a fax detect unit to put ahead of the system and forget this mess. Vented still P.O.'ed.

I have had more problems with the STS sytems. I stopped selling them. They are OK if you have No Voice mail or Fax

Well Bill, I wish I could help you. As I stated a couple of months ago, we use it and have no problems. Are you sure there is nothing on that line that could be causing issues? Have you totally taken the fax machine out of the equation?

Of course (as you know, Bill) the best thing is for the customer to have a dedicated fax line.

Not sure what your problems were but we've had great success with the STS with our without voicemail. The only place we've used the fax circuit is at our office.

Sorry Larry, that's my frustration showing. I'm sure it's the fax detect circuit, I checked all line parameters, loop currents a little high, but that's it, guess I could put current limiters on it if I wanted to keep messing with it. I can't believe no one else has had problems with the fax detect and I get two KSU's with two different problems, what luck. I hear ya on the dedicated fax, but small customers like this who get just a few faxes can't justify the added cost. I have put in several fax detect units that work just fine, which is now what I'm going to do here. My peeve is if they advertise something than it ought to work. Thanks for letting me vent on this.

We went with VODAVI STS when it was first introduced and brought to life.
My operation is a one horse buggy set up.(trunk slammer).
It has kept me in bread and water and I have never look back since.
We have 50 systems installed working and clicking away (no major problems)
My job is to take and solve minor day to day issues that may arise from ANY system which is on the market today.
We have systems with 2 (two) cabinets and 40 telephones.
Systems with both inskin and inskin Hdd.
When looking at a device to detect cng and multi-use, you will have problems, as it is a fact of life plain and simple math.
I do not recommend using device(call processor) for line sharing.
It has nothing to do with whom made the unit.
CNG is emitted frequency and time frames set by the industry.
As for VODAVI, Why should i jump ship?

It can't be beat for reliability, price and day to day operation of the modern office. (my opinion only)
Ive been installing systems for a year or two.
I am sixty candles on the cake.
:toast: VODAVI STS/STSe

The fax detect is the only problem I've seen. I don't have near the experience with the systems as y'all, but over all I've been happy with them.

I have to agree on several issues here. First, I have never even attempted to mess with the fax detect feature. Not for lack of interest, but moreso because people around here have accepted the fact that a fax must be kept on a separate line.

The STS and STSe have been remarkable products for us; we are averaging three system installations a week with them since they came out three years ago. That's a lot of systems out there with relatively few problems, usually broken phone hookswitch buttons, but Vodavi's been good about fixing them through Aztec.

I will say one thing though. Thorough initilization on these systems using DIP switch 8 is absolutely mandatory, expecially with the STSe. You should also go into flash 80 and initialize it there as well just to make sure that everything is cleared.

Vodavi did just come out with new LCOB and Modem cards last week though. I didn't know of any problems, but now the new cards require a system software upgrade to be supported. That really makes me wonder since I never heard of any pressing issues with either of these cards, and now such a drastic (and quiet) replacement? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.........

The original system was initialized on install. The new one was initialized then when it messed up was re-initialized and re-programmed, so don't think that was the issue. I am tempted to get a couple current limiters from Sandman though just to see if maybe that detect circuit is overly sensitive to loop current. I've cooled down a little and I hate to let a trouble beat me.

I apologize for not updating the fix on this. Loop current regulators resolved the fax detect problem, now have two systems working successfully using fax detect. Locking this Topic so as not to take away from the new topic on the same subject.