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#261855 05/28/09 02:45 AM
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nicklaz Offline OP
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kumba, i tried to call kevin's number a couple of times and got tom's voicemail.

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#261856 05/28/09 03:04 AM
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verizon tech is on site now but here is a log after switching ports.


500 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 16: Red Alarm
501 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 15
502 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 15: Red Alarm
503 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 14
504 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 14: Red Alarm
505 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 13
506 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 13: Red Alarm
507 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 12
508 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 12: Red Alarm
509 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 11
510 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 11: Red Alarm
511 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 10
512 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 10: Red Alarm
513 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 9
514 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 9: Red Alarm
515 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 8
516 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 8: Red Alarm
517 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 7
518 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 7: Red Alarm
519 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 6
520 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 6: Red Alarm
521 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 4
522 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 4: Red Alarm
523 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 3
524 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 3: Red Alarm
525 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Unable to disable echo cancellation on channel 1
526 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 1: Red Alarm
527 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 5: Red Alarm
528 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: Detected alarm on channel 2: Red Alarm
529 05/28/2009 8:20 AM WARNING chan_zap.c: No D-channels available! Using Primary channel 24 as D-channel anyway!
530 05/28/2009 8:20 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: Alarm (4) on Primary D-channel of span 1
531 05/28/2009 8:20 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: HDLC Abort (6) on Primary D-channel of span 1
532 05/28/2009 8:20 AM NOTICE Last Message Repeated 1 times
533 05/28/2009 8:20 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: HDLC Bad FCS (8) on Primary D-channel of span 1
534 05/28/2009 8:18 AM WARNING ast_expr2.y: non-numeric argument
535 05/28/2009 8:16 AM WARNING Last Message Repeated 12 times
536 05/28/2009 8:12 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: HDLC Abort (6) on Primary D-channel of span 1
537 05/28/2009 8:12 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: HDLC Bad FCS (8) on Primary D-channel of span 1
538 05/28/2009 8:09 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: HDLC Abort (6) on Primary D-channel of span 1
539 05/28/2009 8:09 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: HDLC Bad FCS (8) on Primary D-channel of span 1
540 05/28/2009 8:09 AM NOTICE Last Message Repeated 1 times
541 05/28/2009 8:08 AM WARNING ast_expr2.y: non-numeric argument
542 05/28/2009 8:04 AM WARNING Last Message Repeated 13 times
543 05/28/2009 8:01 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: HDLC Bad FCS (8) on Primary D-channel of span 1
544 05/28/2009 8:00 AM NOTICE chan_zap.c: PRI got event: No more alarm (5) on Primary D-channel of span 1

#261857 05/28/09 03:09 AM
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I'm still bugged by that T3 comment. I know most of you are thinking about facilities, but he could have been referring to the LAPB T3 timer. Yeah...remember that from the Frame Relay days? Well it's used in all kinds of stuff from VoDSL to NFAS PRI circuits.

It's a "watchdog timer"--as I like to call it--which says, "how long do I wait to hear from the other end before I claim that the link is down and bounce this circuit?"

Kinda makes sense here, although it might be a red herring. It would be neat to know how exactly it is that the carrier is delivering this PRI.


"Press play and record at the same time" -- Tim Alberstein
#261858 05/28/09 04:18 AM
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nicklaz Offline OP
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this is the latest update from our att service manager. vzn tech is still on site though so there may be more issues.

FOUND BAD ISOLATE PAIR(F2) 3090-171(XBOX) 151(TERMINAL) HA S METALLIC FAULTS,MOVED IT TO 3090-179,CHECKED OTHER PAIR

#261859 05/29/09 10:24 AM
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Carriers are a pain in the you-know-what when it comes to these types of troubles. Nobody thinks anymore. You see a failure, you report it to the carrier. 75% of the time a tech doesn't touch it with AT&T long distance, it goes to an automated system that auto-tests your circuit. What does it do? It loops up the smartjack, tests to it, then loops up the CSU, and tests to it. Of course it finds nothing because hey, test ok, the alarms have already cleared so therefore it MUST be your fault (which is BS).

Unfortunately a lot of the techs aren't better. They'll take a window, they'll test, and that window is just the gospel of anything and everything with your circuit. A lot of times they don't even stop and LOOK at what they are seeing.

A lot of smartjacks have performance monitors built in to them (sometimes referred to as a genius jack). I wonder if before intrusively jumping into the circuit and testing it somebody has actually looked at the alarm history both at the smartjack as well as the test points in AT&T's network to see who's seeing what from where. I never understood how people can just jump in and hit a button to have a little computer tell them what the problem is without understanding to look at the orientation of the errors/failure!

If I seem a bit harsh it's because I used to work in a remote test center for a carrier and this became a serious pet peeve for me as I watched them and other carriers dumb down their techs to the point that they became test system monkeys. They push the magic button, it does the work for them, and they spit out the result without any thought. Works great for most cut-and-dry failures, but as soon as you get something intermittent it becomes a problem.

The red alarm you're seeing on your system indicates a loss of framing. As a result, your system would generate a yellow alarm to transmit towards the carrier. If the path to the carrier was good, that signal would get to them and they could see it on their alarm history. If it was not, they would see history of AIS.

The point is that they would see something. I would bet money that nobody has even looked at the history, and now doing so would be useless as the data would be corrupted with intrusive testing.

If AT&T comes back after Verizon changes the cable pair as a problem with Verizon and then closes their ticket, and the trouble comes back, tell them you want them to monitor the PMs for a few days. When the trouble occurs again, call them up, and ask them what the PMs show. At least then you can get a handle on the orientation of the fault. The same can be done with Verizon if AT&T asks so they can pull the PMs off the smartjack (which if it's a 'genius jack' they can do remotely as it will store the PM info...in fact, AT&T can get it too if they know how which saves a lot of effort). That way the next failure can go like this:

"My T1 just failed again, I have a red alarm on my CSU. That means I lost framing." --You

"Red alarm history on the smartjack too, must be failing before here." --Verizon

"AIS history on the first port...must be an issue between this port and the smartjack, let's start changing things out to see if it helps." --Verizon


Of course, it's never that easy, but it beats the hell out of chasing after a ghost with random T1 testing. If an intermittent issue not presenting itself on a long intrusive test then it's a crap shoot to catch. It's much easier (and more logical) to look at the errors/alarms you're seeing and start making educated guesses.

Sorry for the long rant. smile


--Matt
#261860 06/09/09 01:11 AM
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nicklaz Offline OP
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Kumba, can you please give me kevin's number again. the one that i have seems to be someone else's.

#261861 06/09/09 07:00 AM
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863-393-9339

He probably hasn't recorded over the other guy's voicemail message. I'll have to yell at him about that.

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