atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Wiring Info PLEASE

I am going to install either a IP-PBX System or a combination VOIP with 4-line telephone system in a new business of mine. My husband (who is a builder) is going to be doing the inside wiring but I don't know what kind of wiring to buy; Do I purchase cat5 for the internet and cat3 for the telephone or go cat5 all the way...or something different? Clear voice and data speeds are both crucial. Can somebody please (in laymans terms) help me with this information? Thanks!

Welcome If you'll read through a couple post you'll see differences of opinion on this between the computer guys and the telephone guys. CAT3 for voice and CAT5 for your network is just fine. You can use CAT5 for all if you wish, I wouldn't. Get someone that knows what they are doing to terminate everything for you.

Thank you, justbill. Also, I have been told that the wiring will be run from the Router to all of the locations with double jacks at each; 1 for each computer and one for each VOIP digital phone. With up to 8 computers & eight VOIP phones running from the same DSL Line, will that degrade quality? If so, should I use a different type of wiring all together...RG6? Or more wiring...perhaps 2 seperate DSL? Thanks!

DSL to your router should be fine, as long as your DSL speed is high speed. RG6 is for a cable modem and wouldn't work for your network. Again I'd have a qualified installed do all your terminating, just go to the installer link at the top of the page there are probably several in your area. You said you were doing your own wiring, so make sure you have plenty of wire on both ends, you can't stretch it. Also make sure you have wire at the correct locations, router or telephone interface, hopefully both close to each other.

By doing exactly what you are wanting to do is what gets people in trouble. We see it all the time- someone who has no idea throwing some kind of wire in a building.

Then comes the time, after the sheetrock is hung and the finishes are in place, for someone to install a phone system. The wire usually is wrong, probably not enough of it, it may be run to the wrong location for the equipment and too short to be moved- whatever.

Point is by then it is too late in the game to do anything about it and you are doomed to either rewire or work around what you have.

And, no offence but general contractors and electricians followed by computer geeks are the chief offenders. You would think an electrician would know something about what he presents himself as being able to do, but the reality is telecom and data is a different world than what most electrical contractors are experienced in. Computer and IT people rarely know anything about running cables and terminations.

What prompted me to add my two cents here is your comment about RG/6. Not too long ago I had the pleasure of giving a well intentioned customer a quote for a new office phone system in his brand new building. He told me that everything was prewired by the electrical contractor. I take a look around, as I always will before giving any quote, and see that one RG/6 along with one CAT5 was run to every desk location. The RG/6 is of course useless and it would now be a major undertaking to add additional wiring from each location back down to the telephone room on the first floor.

Moral of this story (and my advice) is no matter what type of system you want to install, decide on it early on in the construction planning stages and engage a dealer of that equipment as early as possible to handle or at least supervise the installation of the cabling. Unless you know what you are doing it's not a do it yourself project and could wind up costing you much more than if you contracted the installation out to begin with.

-Hal

What voice and data infrastructure technicians (cable guys) do quietly without a lot of fanfare gives the impression that it is easy and it actually is. It is easy in both ways. It is easy to do correctly if you know what your doing and on the flip side it is easy to make a fatal error if you don't have experience. Let me recommend these things.

Put 2 cat5e cables to every possible location that you think will need either a phone, a computer or both.

Waste cable! When you think you have it long enough add 6 feet.

Do the same in the room or location where the data and voice equipment will be located. Each cable that goes in that room should be able to go on any wall all the way to the floor then waste 6 more feet.

You only have one chance to do it right the first time.

Stay in touch, your gonna need us!

What part of Florida are you in. We do onsite consulting for reasonable fees.

John

I agree with Hal. The communications trade has been around for over 100 years. Find a data/comm installer that knows: the difference between RG and RJ, what TIA 568B is, and knows your system requirements.

Two cat5e cables to each location is the minimum that we will place. This will allow for Gigabit Network connectivity and Voice (analog, digital and IP)Connection. The cost difference in 1000ft of cat3 vs cat5e should be minimal and is worth the money.

The type of termination, in the telecom closet, is determined by the output of the phone equipment. Terminate data jacks to an appropriate patch panel and voice to IDC blocks or patch panels. ALWAYS leave a 3foot service loop in your cable so that you can make changes in the future. Unless you have conduit to each location, consider this as important as buildings foundation. It can be very expensive to make a mistake.

Wiring is a broad term for many tasks. I would not want a residential electrician working the jet that I was about to board.

(Edited to remove contractor cost price quotation by original poster).

Consumergirl, I looked at your profile and I see you are a Realtor. Allow me to activate some thought processes in your mind. When you see a yard sign, publication add or a web listing that says FSBO how do you feel. I'm sure you are a minor bit insulted by the sellers apparent opinion that a realtor is a waste of money. I have set up several law firms, real estate broker offices and title offices. When you finish your project and you are in your office doing your "thing" if you reach for the phone to make a call you want dialtone. When you print a business card you want to put one phone number on it and have things set up so if a potential buyer dials that number it will find you no matter where you are, at home, on the road or even in another office. The same thing applies to a yard sign. Make things easy for the potential client. None of that Office #, Cell #, Home #, Night #, Emergency #, yada yada yada..... When you want to use your computer you want it connected every single time you click whatever it is you wanna click. The point I'm trying to make is we are here to help you be a full time realtor several months from now and not a 75% realtor-25% office technology manager. When we say you should call in an expert it is because we want you to end up with a true professional business operation. Even though it may appear that we use this website to get you to enlist the services of a professional as our standard answer to everything it is not what we do, it does however happen so often that it leaves that impression.

One last thing, You don't need VOIP to run your business, there is an area where a real chunk of money can be wasted and I do mean WASTED real fast.

John

To the original poster: Please don't take offense to our comments as guidance. Not to mention that we, the professional telecommunications contractors catch all of the heat when we come in and charge money to fix errors made by others. I can't understand why people seem to think that voice/data is such a do it yourself project when phones and computers are just about the most important equipment that a business has!

True, many jurisdictions don't require licensing, permits and inspections YET. Around these parts, it's not legal for anyone who doesn't maintain an electrical contractor's license to even run one cable to one jack. There is a reason for this.

Those of us who spend tens of thousands of dollars per year to maintain licenses and obtain permits do find it a bit difficult to provide assistance to persons who are likely attempting to circumvent this requirement. Sorry if any of our replies seem pointed or bitter, but please try to refer back to the "FSBO" comment.

Just to echo what has been said...get a dealer/cabler involved so that they can do it right the first time. I can't tell you how many times business or even electricians have wired for phones and network incorrectly and we have to come in and fix it later. We even recently came in to help a person whose husband wired the office (she was a realtor too...interesting, no?)

Also, I would echo Grider...VOIP does have some specific niches, but to act as a PBX for a small office is not one of them...unless you are a remote office running off of another main office's system (and even then, you may be in for a lot of service glitches, depending on what comes into you building).

Bottom line, working with a dealer/cabler is an investment WELL SPENT. You have a person who will know your wiring, needs, and preferences. This will save a LOT of time when you need an extension added, moved, etc. because the person doesn't have to play detective as much figuring out what goes where, or having to run new cable because it wasn't done right the first time. (remember that service is charged by time by the way).

I have seen this sort of thing happen time and time again (and I know I'm not alone in this). We are not trying to be difficult, we really are trying to help.