atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Telecom Service & Providers Duel Service again

I always thought that you could get duel service if your old location and new were both operating out of the same CO. I have been having more and more trouble with this over the last few years - "can't do it" they say, BS I say - Then I would usually win. Until now. Newark, De. Client building a new building right next to his old building on a new lot in a corporate park, hell the lines come in from the same pole. Nope, no duel service, T & F only, can't be done. My BS remark got me nowhere, so my client has to go out of business and then rely on the demon (Verizon) to bring it back up 100 feet away. This will not go smooth, that is the only thing that's assured.
So the question, is it true you can no longer get duel service like this?
Mark

A few years ago a grief counseling center for children, that had been renting space in our church, moved into their own building.

Verizon, for a while, had their telephone service going to both locations. Now the $50k question is "Do Verizon DE and Verizon MA play by different sets of rules?" :confused:

I can't understand why you wouldn't get the dual service..[Must be a "Corporate-Logic" thing] Like you said, and like we do here, both the old and new addresses have to reside in the same office. We provide dual service from time to time.

I was told that duel service is no longer available in De. - I guess it's part of the "Is there anything else we can do to make things worse for our customer" Philosphy at Verizon.
They have already cut the customer off once because they had the move date wrong. It took them 4 hours Friday night to get them back up.
Mark

That's crazy. But I do think you hit the nail on the head with the philosophy. Verizon...I dunno...it's like they took on way too much or something...they took down one of our long distance trunks the other day without telling us, it took me 2 hours of being transferred back and forth using multiple circuit IDs until, just when I get in contact with the right person, the alarms mysterically clear up..hmmm..this same thing happened a couple months ago..ya know....Verizon..

Well after hearing that I am glad that Fairpoint is taking over the Verizon lines here. I had 2 within the last month and one next week hook up for dual service

Hopefully it works out well for Fairpoint, and then they can grow their way down here to the Mid-Atlantic area. :toothy:

If there is a way to screw something up, Verizon has a patent on it. Just my opinion.

I can tell you here you can get dual service, but it ain't cheap. I'd been out of the local side of it for some time and when I found out how much they charged for something they used to do for customer relations gratis for a week I couldn't believe it.

Just a simple question...all those Verizon commercials...the guy walking around with the phone asking the same dumb question over and over...now be honest, does he look like a phone guy to you, or someone who just left a rat's nest of computer cables hanging in a huge knot from someone's ceiling panels?? Sorry Mark, I should have warned you..don't get me started on Verizon..but we provide dual service here.

When we provide dual service, both lines must share the same calling features. If you assign the call forwarding feature, and they activate it, they forward both lines simotaniously. That's the only setback I can think of.

I don't get it. These buildings are 40 yards apart tops. Instead of one guy half tapping the lines at the pole, they will turn them off at the CO and have 4 guys on site to track new pairs to the new building. They had 4 guys there today to get two lines in for the alarm circuits for the sprinkler system so they could get an occupancy permit. But at least it only took them 3 hours.
Makes me crazy.

I know, a half tap only takes a few minutes, and it's only temporary... :bang:

Problem being is that dual service is just not a matter of half tapping the cable. If the entire copper loop is short enough that COULD be done but the proper way to have two locations operating in parallel is to employ a device called a bridge lifter at the C.O. Bridge lifters ain’t been manufactured in a long, long time… Many C.O. locations just cain’t get ‘em anymore.

If they're close together a bridge lifter wouldn't be needed and I fully agree the tap is done in the CO, not the field, unless of course they are so close that when all is said and done they are using the same pairs. Like Bryan said though, if the two locations are opposite directions of the CO and a long ways apart you need bridge lifters, or else you'll have ringing and volume problems. Just wanted to add, around here as high as the loop current is, they'd probably be fine even if they were 5 miles apart! :shrug:

Those a good points. I agree that without the bridge lifters, the farther the distance..the more problems with ringing and volume.

Hmmm...I know it's impossible right now..but if there was a way to call a line, the call rings that line, while simotaniously forwarding to a second line...kinda like an automatic/forced 3-way call...maybe someday. (Pay no attention, I just think of crazy stuff like this from time to time...) We have something kinda like that here, but it's completely isolated and dedicated...we call it a "crash-conference" (Tellabs), but the lines are strictly dedicated to the same conference group (you cannot bridge into it from an outside line, and the members cannot recieve or place calls to other lines).

Bridge lifters are a little simpler than that. When you go off hook the current flow goes in that direction and "lifts" the other leg off. The one's I've seen and wired look a lot like a private line data bridge. We used them a lot when we went from 8 party lines to 2 party where the 2 party's were in different directions. What's an 8 party line you say! :confused: I think there may still be some two's around.

Never seen one, but I've heard the term "party lines" something about a shared a line with two to ten to twenty people...You could talk only five minutes or so before someone else wanted to make a call?

Sorry, I'm wandering off topic again...But I'm still surprised that it seems to be getting harder and harder to receive dual service.

These buildings are separated by a small parking lot, not more then 40 yards and on the same pole. The trouble is, you talk to someone in Pittsburgh for a job in Newark De. They don't want to hear it, it can't be done.

Mark:

I feel your pain in dealing with the devil. What I have seen done, especially in situations like this, is to have them install a new group of numbers at the new location. Before this is done, have them add call forwarding on the main number at the old location. When you are ready to roll, you simply activate call forwarding to the new number at the other side. After this is done and the move is complete, have them change the numbers at the new site to the old numbers.

True, they will totally F that up too, but at least there will be service working at both locations for your part of things so you can get paid for the work that you did.

If they are being served off the same pole than Verizon is just being horses butts. Maybe the cable companies getting into the dial tone business will change some attitudes back to customer service instead of disservice. No excuse I can see Mark.

True, they may be served from the same pole, but the assigned counts for the buildings may differ. Unless we are talking about a pole terminal with multipair drops, I can't see them even budging on that. I also can't imagine them reworking cable counts just to satisfy one customer's needs by busting open a splice case to rearrange the count. They just are way too stubborn about their policies.

Regardless, they should have some kind of alternate solution for their customer. Policies or not, by simply saying "no" with no other option, they are pushing their customer away.

I took it as drops Ed, not dedicated count. If it's dedicated, back to the C.O. Duel service just isn't that big of deal, even though all the phone companies seem to make it so. I did a move in a small independent phone company area. It was great, duel service, didn't even have to ask, it was there. After the move I called the phone company and the duel service was removed, take a deep breath folks, while I was on the phone so I could verify everything was still good.

The independents and CLECs are the only ones who are willing to go the extra mile to serve their customers. In this case, we are dealing with the devil.

I'm going to do it on a Saturday, T&F on Friday at 5 pm, wanna bet they shut em off early and take 3 hours to get them up at the new site.
Mark