atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Security, Alarms and Paging Who is responsible

I always assume that everyone else is going to do nothing. On a pre-wire, the first thing I do is alert the customer to the fact that if they are moving data circuits to a new building, they better call their provider immediately and get into the queue. I have seen law firms pay rent on a new office space, but they could not move in because they were waiting for their T-1s to be installed. Then of course, no one wants to bring up dial tone from the demarc either. The funniest one was this year when a customer told me "Oh - Time Warner said they will pull the cable in for $99.00". I said "Oh really, they are going to run 12 plenum RG6 coax cables for $99.00?" When they showed up they said "we don't do that", and they don't even carry plenum cable on their truck. All they did was drop off the set-top boxes.

All of that is true. But for me it's not so much that I'm trying to mitigate liability for anyone.
My biggest concern is keeping the security and/or fire alarm system functioning properly so it can do it's job no matter what!

I do everything I possibly can to make sure the systems are as reliable as the equipment allows. But, as with every other system, redundancy is only limited by the customer's budget.

For me it's a matter of preference to install the cable and jack myself. In doing so I do not have to worry if it's correct or not.

The most common problem I've faced with telephone cables ran by someone else is earth ground faults. As I'm sure you know a small scale earth ground has very little affect on most telephone systems.
However, even the slightest earth ground in a fire alarm will cause a major problem in the future once it is introduced into the system because the fault is never going to do anything but intensify over time.
That's the reason fire alarm systems monitor earth grounds in the first place.

Of course it's not feasible for me to run my own circuit all the way to the monitoring center, but trust me, If I could I would! If it saved one life it would be worth the effort!

can anyone point me to a link, or something, with the relevant FCC regulation on this?

Any help is much appreciated!

FCC regulations pertaining to what?
I think the only FCC regulations you're going to find pertain to the jack it's self, not who's going to be responsible for installing the jack.

Not to give you a non-answer but I think the general consensus is that it's still pretty much up to whomever is willing to take responsibility.

That's as clear as mud isn't it? :shrug:

The most common problem I've faced with telephone cables ran by someone else is earth ground faults. As I'm sure you know a small scale earth ground has very little affect on most telephone systems.
However, even the slightest earth ground in a fire alarm will cause a major problem in the future once it is introduced into the system because the fault is never going to do anything but intensify over time.
That's the reason fire alarm systems monitor earth grounds in the first place.

I think you are confusing the wiring for the smokes, pull stations and alerting equipment with the phone line wiring. How would you monitor a POTS line for resistance to ground? Also, The most common problem I've faced with telephone cables ran by someone else is earth ground faults. Most common problem? That just doesn't make sense or we would all be chasing grounds most of the time.

-Hal

USOC (Universal Service Order Codes) or "RJ" codes were developed under the FCC's Part 68 of their regulations. USOC requirements were developed in the early 1970's and the Bell companies were key players in the development of this program.

In theory, it was a great idea. Now that Bell companies and standards are a thing of the past, I seriously doubt that any regulations that involve the local service provider being responsible for ANY form of inside wiring can be enforced.

Since Part 68 applied to all US telcos, including all independents such as Contel, Alltel, GTE, United, Centel, Century, etc., it doesn't matter what part of the country you are in. FCC covers everywhere in the US, even though AT&T pretty much set the standards that the FCC rules supposedly enforce.

AT&T/Bell companies pretty much created the uniform standards and the FCC backed them, but that was at a different time. This was back when AT&T held the monopoly and the regulators danced to their tune. Their Bell companies actually wanted to do this inside wiring work. Even if these rules existed under the original Part 68, I can sleep well in telling you that the RJ31X (or any series jack for that matter) is the telco's responsibility today.

Personally, I'd be amazed to see any LEC or CLEC "technician" who even understands what a series jack is. Most, if not all responsibility for anything inside the building has been shifted to the tenant or building owner. Regardless of how Part 68 is written, rest assured that you can't fight the service providers.

You are correct that a ground fault is worse on the SLC (Signaling Line Circuit) than it is the telephone circuit but if the Tip & Ring is grounded enough it can and will cause problems for the fire panel.
I suppose it's similar to the problem modems had many years ago when you could talk on a grounded pair and the hum wasn't a big problem for voice but data flow was affected a great deal.

The magnitude of the problem will vary depending upon the communication format your panel uses to communicate with the central monitoring center.
Back when 4x2 pulse format was the most commonly used format it wasn't such a problem but with the faster formats used currently (such as Contact-ID) it doesn't take near as much ground to cause problems.

Actually, that makes perfect sense to me.

The regs pertain only to a definition and standard of installation and it must be installed to certain requirements... no matter who does it.

Use the right stuff. Install it right.

Heck.. this is the topic of study that brought me this forum in the first place!

Personally, I just want it done right... if I can do that, then great. However, if I look at a punch down and can't figure it out due to my lack of telcom knowledge and experience, I tell my client to have a proper phone guy come in and wire my stuff in for me.

If there is a cost issue, I try to work them.... give them a credit or something.