atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Inter-Tel Telephones & Systems Can't sieze trunk after phone goes to sleep????

Strange as this sounds its like the phones go to sleep on our Axxes system. After not using a keyset for a while when you go to grab an outgoing line by pressing the line key, there is nothing there. If you hang up and try again itwill be there but only for that one line. If you try another line it still seems to be asleep. Is there a timer somewhere that will fix this?

What software version?

When you press the key, does the key light or make a beep, even though nothing happens? You said you have to hang up and try again. What are you hanging up, an error tone, nothing, silence (but key is lite)?

Is it on one phone or all phones?

Are you pressing the OUTGOING key or a key programmed as a line?

If you have a display phone, press the infinity key (sideways 8) and dial 396 and press the key that is giving you trouble. The display will tell you what that key is programmed to be.

The software is ver 5.1. It happens on all the keysets.

It is when you select an outgoing line. Our buttons are programmed for lines 1-5 and you can seltect the trunk. When you press the line it places you on speaker phone and you hear dialtone unless the phone is "asleep" as i put it. You hear nothing but silence. After a few seconds, you will see the programmed name of the line appear and the clock will start counting just like when you have dialtone, but it is silence. If you hang up by either pressing hte speaker button or raising the receiver and placing it back on the cradle then you can do it again and you will have dialtone.

If you make another call it will work fine. It's just when its been a little while. Also, just because you make a call on line 1 and it's now awake, line 2 will still be "asleep" so to speak and you will have the same problem on that one. We don't use the outgoing button for reasons that are too complicated to explain here, but what it comes down to as that each team has their own lines and wherever they are they need to call out on their own trunk. They're not always at the same desk.

Thats interesting. As a tech, the first thing i would do is download your error log and see if anything comes up. Next i would put my testset on the co line and press the key on the phone. Doing that would give me a better understanding of where the problem is.

I havnt encountered this problem with an axxess. There isnt any settings in programming that would make this happen. Sounds like a tech is needed at your site for further investigation. It could be something as simple as the phone system just needing a reset.

Is it Version 5.100 or 5.1xx? xx meaning 5.115 or 5.118 etc. Version 5.100 was a major overhaul from 5.06. And it had some bugs. Not saying what you have is a bug but just throwing it out there.

The version is either 5.118 or 119.

If you look at the error report when this happens nothing is generated. In the SMDR report a blank callout entry fo rthat trunk is displayed. SOMETIMES you will get an internal recroding saying the call cannot be complteted as dialed, but it's an internal recroding from the cabinet not the phone company. That seldom happens.

If you listed at the trunk with a test set nothing is heard.

The Axxess 5.1-19 does not have an internal recording for "The call can not be completed as dialed". If you are getting this it is from the CO.
Almost sounds like they are Ground Start lines on a Loop Start Card. Are these copper lines, an adtrans or what.
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Voice and Data Cabling in DFW, [email protected]
DnR Communications

[This message has been edited by DnRComm (edited September 05, 2005).]

Exactly

flintstone: Was this an upgrade from a version 4 or 3? There were some older LSC cards that had a problem very similar if not the same as to what you are describing. Wich leads me to my next question, what type of lines do have and what cards do you have in the system?




[This message has been edited by RCA (edited September 05, 2005).]

I haven't been here long enough to know if it was an upgrade, and unfortunately we hvae no record of it if it is.

The trunks are absolutely Loop Start but they're VOIP until they break out behind the adtran router. When the trunks are used without going through the Axxess they are rock stable and no problems at all.

The LSC Cards have two numbers on them. The first one is 550.2300 the second is 826.4005-4 with a square after it and the number 0 written in it.

I've swapped out the LSC card & the DKSC16 card.

Flintstone, what did you mean by this?

If you listed at the trunk with a test set nothing is heard.

If nothing is heard, i.e. then it sounds as if no dial tone is present.
Not 100% sure what you meant there.

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Voice and Data Cabling in DFW, [email protected]
DnR Communications

When your phone is "asleep", what happens when you press something other than a line? Try pressing the voicemail key. If your phone is truely sleeping then i would think this wouldnt work either.

By putting a testset on the co line in monitor mode and pressing the line key on the phone you hear silence? At this point maybe its your other equipment
thats "asleep". If the testset thats in monitor mode has dialtone when the key is pressed (and the keyphone is silent) i would check the voltage on the co line. Actually, I would check the voltage in both cases.

You said you swapped out cards, good.

Try connecting the co line to a standard 2500 set or disconnect the amphenol from the LSC card, and with your testset try to pull dialtone after waiting the normal "asleep" period. What happens then?

When you place a testset on the trunk in monitor mode and grab a line wiht a keyset you hear a click but no tone. Anytime you try to draw tone wiht a testset at the trunk you can get tone with no problem. Voltage is good. All other keys on the keset work fine. In fact the line key seems to work fine it just doesn't get tone through the cabinet

I cant think of anything else to try at the moment. At this point I am out of ideas except swapping out the CPU and seeing what happens. As far as basic troubleshooting and the purpose of this board we are pretty much as far as we can go without being there and getting a feel of it.

Well just in case anyone is still keeping score on this card, i struck out again on this issue. I changed out the CPU card and still had the same issue. The phone company came out& said all their stuff is working right (big surprise). I told them about the recording coming on when I got no dialtone and they put a digit grbber on the line which showed no digits being dailed out when this happens. I even changed the slot that the station card was in to see if it was the cabinet. Anyone else want to take a stab at this one?

Swapping the CPU card was a good test move as was frogging the station card to a new slot. Unfortunately it still doesn't preclude a backplane issue as your CPU card is still in the same slot.

If you have a good meter would you take some readings for me. Grab an on hook and off hook voltage reading, and more importantly a current draw (how many milliamps the circuit is drawing at the trunk) and a True RMS reading if your meter is capable. Some meters will say True RMS but it won't be readily apparent by the settings. You may have to read it with the meter set to AC. While metering the trunk go off hook and give me the True RMS reading of the dialtone. Also when you go off hook, watch the meter and when you first go off hook and tell me what you see. If the meter has a memory capability, get the high and low of the reading.

Next, you said you get a recording saying I think that the call cannot be completed as dialed. Go off-hook and wait until you get a recording. Note what the recording says. Then go off-hook and dial a single digit, then wait for the recording and note what it says. Do either of the recordings match the one you hear when you get "dead air?" If the recording you hear when you dial a single digit is the same as the one you hear when you have trouble try one more thing for me. Try dialing a 1+ number without using the 1+. Make sure the number you choose will not go through without dialing the 1+. You might want to use one of the ANI numbers but any long distance number will do. Now, the next time you have this happen (when you get the dead air after the phone goes to sleep), as soon as you get the dead air, try dialing the remaining 10 digits of your long distance number and see if it goes through. Even though the phone company didn't see digits with their equipment we want to assume that the switch has interpreted something as dialing the 1 for you.

Also, do you have access to an oscilloscope with memory?

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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary & those who don't.

OK, I think I have mose everything. I wasn't sure about some of it so I called an electrical engineer that works for the company and he brought a meter out and helped get the information. I took readings on a regular copper line, the adtran line, using the axxess and using a test set. Here are the readings:

Copperline with test set:
On hook 52
off hook 7.2
35.8 milliamps
86.5 rms

Adtran line with test set:
On hook 48.8
Off hook 6.5
27.5 milliamps
84 rms

coppper line with axxess:
On hook 51.9
off hook 6.75
35.84 milliamps
129.2 rms

adtran line with axxess:
on hook 48.8
off hook 6.0
27.6 milliamps
116.2 rms

His meter would not do memory but when i went off hook i could see the bar graph dip down almost to the bottom then jump around a lot before it leveled off. The digital readout wsn't fast enough to show the actual reading.

As for the scope, I don't have one but the engineer said he could borrow one, but it doesn't have a memory function. The VP told me I could rent whatever I needed if it would solve this problem tough. It's started causing some real issues as when the phones try to forward to the salesmen's cell phones the phone doesn't get tone for a dialout. Plus he is getting desperate. we've had everyone out here we can call. I don't know the first thing about using a scope but if you think you have an asnwer and can tell me what to do I'll go get one.

As for the recordings you were right. I got 2 different recordings. The one when I dialed a single digit was the same as the one we get when the phones crash. I was also able to finish dialing the long distance number when it crashed. I guess that means that a 1 is getting dialed, but it only happens through the axxess, and only when the phones crash. What would cause that? and even stranger, why didn't the phone companys digit grabber show it?

flintstone
Do you have the database test and repair utility?

What are the the part numbers of your lsc cards? If you give me the part numbers i will look them up and see if they are the problem ones. You may have swapped the old ones with the same part numbers.

RCA, take a look several posts up. He put the info regarding the LoopStart Cards. If you find anything on that please post it. I haven't come across that before.

Flintstone, your numbers look good. Don't spend any money renting a scope. I have an idea of what may be happening.

I believe the reason the phone company didn't see anything on their digit grabber is most likely that they were probably monitoring from the demarc between your IAD and your cabinet and there are no digits at that point. In fact there aren't any real digits being executed. What we have is what the IAD is interpreting as a digit being sent to the switch.

Log into your IAD and look at the Line Resistance. This setting is what the adtran expects to see to determine the difference in an on hook and off hook existance. It's usually used for when lines are going to run a very long distance, much like the hybrid settings we would adjust in the Axxess. This setting can also change what the system expects to see in capacitance. What we want to do is add some capacitance.

Take a look and see what it is set to. If the settings are the same as the ones that I just checked out it will probably be set to a default of 600 Ohms. If so see if you have a setting of 600 Ohms + 2.16 microfareds. Set it to that and try it for a while and see if it makes a difference.

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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary & those who don't.

This thread is getting so long i was to lazy to re-read it, thanks for pointing out the numbers.

Back in 1999 or around there, maybe even earlier, there was a batch of lsc cards that would lock up. Being that he has version 5.118 or 119 he most likely has newer cards unless this was an upgrade. It will take me some time to find this info and hope to post back this weekend.

Yeah it is getting kind of long. I finished an entire cup of coffee reading it for the first time before I posted a few days back.

I read what you had said about the older LSC cards and found it very interesting. I hadn't heard about those so I called a few people I know from Inter-Tel who didn't know about it either. I guess it must have been before their time. I'd love to find out which cards those are for future reference.

Apparently according to his post, both of the LSC cards he used had the same number on them, so if that's the issue he most likely frogged the card with another one of the same model.

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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary & those who don't.

I dont' have admin rights to that box, but the VP made a call and it's getting done. I'll let you know what happens.

MAC YOU ARE THE MAN!!!

The guy who had to program the router wasn't really sure which setting you were talking about but after I told him it would probably be set to 600 ohms he found it and it did have the setting you asked for. He wasn't sure he wanted to change it but at our insistance he did. That was this morning and the cabinet has worked great ever since. Our VP wants to know if he can send you a check. He said after all the money he has paid to everyone else that has been out here, paying someone who actually did something only seemed fitting.

I'm leaving early today as I am supposed to start my vacation time. I have a lot of comp built up and I have to use it or lose it, but I will check back later.

Thank you again. I hope I can repay the favor someday.

Awesome. I'm glad to hear it worked.

As for the check, not necessary but please tell him the mere fact that he offered means an awful lot. You guys take the money and have a nice lunch on me. You earned it. Enjoy your time off.

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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary & those who don't.

MacGyver, I am going to have to start calling you for help. You are good.

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Voice and Data Cabling in DFW, [email protected]
DnR Communications

I am glad you got that problem taken care of.

I found the documentation i was talking about and it is for LGC cards and not the LSC, oh well, i havnt seen that problem in about 4.

RCA if you can e-mail that to me as I use alot of LGC for my customers.

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Voice and Data Cabling in DFW, [email protected]
DnR Communications

Lol, thanks for the compliment. What can I say. Even a blind hedgehog finds an acorn once in a while. :>)

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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary & those who don't.