atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General Telecom News A date set for the end of POTS?

This article was referenced in the TCI newsletter this month:

https://m.spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/telecom/internet/the-end-of-the-public-phone-network/

Interesting... I don't think it will happen that quickly, but we'll see!

If it's going to save the big boys that much money, they will probably get it done. I wonder what's the plan for the rural areas. The US has a lot more rural miles than the UK does.

That's what I was thinking Bill. Rural area's and older people who don't want to switch over. There is still a lot of places that cannot get DSL or other forms of high-speed internet. How will they get VoIP?

My aunt lives on a very rural part of Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Verizon does not offer much of anything to residential customers there besides POTS service. Comcast came in about 5 years ago and took a bunch of their customers with their "bundled" services mainly because they are the only broadband provider for the majority of that area.

When I was up there visiting her in the summer I ran into one of her neighbors who had worked for Verizon. He told me that they were not going to roll out FiOS in the area because the cost of the fiber infrastructure upgrade was too expensive for the low population density (the return on investment would be non-existent.) Apparently they were trying to develop some type of long range wireless service that could provide all of the "bundled" services to compete with Comcast.

Verizon's plan is to stop the expansion of FiOS. It will install & support the service in areas where it already exists and where it has started the process of gaining entry.

Beyond that, Verizon wants to switch over to a wireless delivery system for areas where FiOS does not exist.

If Verizon was bent on doing away with TDM service....even in areas where FiOS and wireless are not going to be offered....I suppose it could install some sort of converter (think Vonage/Packet 8). The interface towards the customer would be TDM, while communication towards the network would be IP. Verizon would support the devices much the way they support FiOS hardware.

If not by 2018,..... IMO, definitely in the next 8 to 10 years.

Here in NYC south of Wall Street which still has entire office buildings without power or any service, Verizon is replacing it entire copper cable network with Fiber and FIOS. NO more copper.

Same here in rural Ky after the devastating tornadoes of March 2012 hit.
Even the mom and pop CO's are putting back nothing but fiber, no copper.

We're seeing that crap with most new large building construction in Verizon's (former Bell Atlantic) territory as well. Not so much in the former GTE areas. They are still doing copper with fiber only for HICAP circuits.

We are also doing a booming business troubleshooting fax, modem and alarm line issues as a result.

Most of the new larger buildings that I've seen in the Bell areas still have a fairly small-count copper feed (say, 100 pair) that I assume is for those issues. One new apartment building that I saw recently had about twenty pairs already cross-connected to the copper. I'm pretty sure that I know what those pairs were feeding.

A friend of mine maintains 3 office buildings here in town. The oldest one is around 40 years old or so.
At some point they ran out of copper pairs entering the building, so they abandoned them and installed a DSC SLC cabinet in the basement fed by fiber. The OSP cable is still in the basement phone room, with the protectors hanging off the wall because they needed room for all the 25 pair cables exiting the SLC.

Around here, Verizon doesn't repair copper any more. If they can find a working pair, they just move the circuit. If they can't find a pair, an ONT is hung on the wall and a fiber is run to it. None of the crafts people are happy here because none of the positions made vacant by retirement are being filled. Wireless around here is problematic due to the high iron content of the surrounding hills. Pittsburgh has a cell tower every mile of road because of it and the service is still spotty. FiOS is the "go to" media for Verizon.

Rcaman

Verizon only mode now is fiber ans fios. Of course around here cable company's are the way to go

Around here the cable companies have great internet, but totally suck as telco providers.
SIP all the way!

Our incumbent telco has sold the land of 1 of the major exchanges back to the government for the expansion of a children's hospital.

They are replacing the entire footprint of the exchange with fibre.

They install NTU's with 2 POTS ports and 1 ethernet port (i think the ethernet can double as PRI).
They install multiple of these if you want more then 2 lines.

Then the government is building a national network primarily fibre (gpon fibre to the premesis) with some fixed wireless and satellite for the remote/rural area's. With a similar NTU.

We actually have our Power Board that offers Fiber to the Home and to the Business. I work for a Municipal and we are all (mostly)fiber trunked and,locations we are deploying VOIP and setting gateways at all locations for fail over . Guess what supports the fail over trunks. Yep You Guessed it POTS...We are pulling our many Meridian 1 switches in favor of city wide 4 digit dial for all departments... Funny thing is these POTS come in fiber, Hit an ONT and become copper for most of the locations. Only as stated in other post, "rural" area have AT&T actual copper 1fb's.
You can take the wire from the phone guy and make it glass, but us phone guys end up with copper in the end.

Coper is still king here in New Zealand but with fiber being rolled out the old NEC NEAX 61 central office switches will have analog and ISDN retired about 2020. SIP trunking is the way forward but every man and his dog wants to be a level 3 reseller and put their own SBC in-front of a level 1 or 2 carrier and cause havoc and blame the PBX vendor for all their problems..

If Verizon resold their fiber service as a "common carrier" perhaps it would make it profitable to install?

I can't remember the last time I installed a POTS line that was copper from the street. All of them are sip conversions now.

I was talking with one of the volunteers of The Telephone Museum last weekend. He does special circuit installs for local emergency response departments in Mass. He was told by the LEC (Verizon) that they will stop installing new copper T-1 circuits as of beginning of next year and will not repair any existing copper circuits (not like they do now anyway he said). I guess they are going to be delivered by fiber now.

Not entirely...

While it is probably the worst kept secret that Verizon...and other LECs...want to get away from copper, they will not completely abandon it. at&t IS trying to abandon landline service in rural areas, but, it remains to be seen if they will be allowed to do so.

Verizon's policy of not deploying fiber to every single address that they service means that the copper has to stay. Verizon still cherry picks where FiOS fiber will go in towns where it has been given the okay to offer the service. This means that the copper infrastructure has to remain in place and be serviced as needed.

Verizon has capped the expansion of FiOS. The company will install the service in areas where it is allowed to do so...so long as backbone fibers are in place. It will also forge ahead in areas where the process to gain access has begun.

Outside of that...Sorry Charlie.

Verizon is supposedly looking to use a wireless system to deliver phone, TV and Internet services to buildings. Until a proven system is introduced, copper will continue to be needed.

In the Bell service area between Richmond and Willamsburg, VA, Verizon has been engaged in a very aggressive copper plant upgrade. This is also an area where FiOS won't be deployed, so they have sent some of their best copper people there to do a complete makeover. I must say that they are doing some nice-looking aerial work.

Maybe I should clarify: the volunteer was told by Verizon that they will no longer accept NEW orders for T-1 circuits over copper. And existing copper T-1 circuits will stay in place but not be serviced in any fashion. Verizon has gotten rid of their local special services department & techs from what he found out.

But what happens if an existing T1 in a location with no fiber alternative has trouble? Will Verizon just say "Oh well" and do nothing except continue to send the user a monthly bill?

Verizon is aggressively installing fiber to office buildings and converting all services to fiber. If the circuit is on copper now, it will stay that way. But if a new circuit is being installed or a circuit goes bad on copper, it is replaced with fiber.

In one shopping mall, I was stunned to see a 4,000 pair copper feed chopped off at the conduit and three orange fiber ducts going into a big blue Verizon Fiber cabinet. Then all the existing POTS circuits were cross connected to the fiber/copper interface.

Two of our customers recently had cable damage due to snapped poles and pole line damage. Verizon "patched" a copper bridge but, when the pole line was repaired, fiber was brought to the premise and all copper circuits were fed off the ONT. The Verizon FiOS garage here has ONTs that will supply 8 voice circuits and broadband internet.

Rcaman

I was told once that part of the reason involves CLECS , Verizon doesn't have to share fiber they do have to share copper

I assume most/all of the locations the volunteer works at have access to fiber, so I guess Verizon would cut out copper and install fiber drop and a mux.


Bingo. Eliminate competition & "pesky gov't oversight/regulation" in one foul swoop.

Verizon continues to pick and choose where to install fiber. While hanging fiber on poles is relatively inexpensive, Verizon will not run fiber & conduit under streets unless they feel that they can recoup the cost. Where that is not the case, copper plant will remain and will need to be maintained.

This hits home for me because Verizon and the cable companies will not provide FiOS (or any in the case of the cable companies) service to the church I attend. Utilities are underground and the only other active structure on the block is a CVS.

The various fiber/coax conduits end under the block before the church and resume on the next block. Calls to the various Business Offices result in a "Sorry" response.

Don't get me wrong. We have had almost no problems with copper in the years that I have been in charge of the phones and Internet (except for DSL issues related to Central Office problems and an issue where a backhoe pulled up the 50-pair telephone feeder cable because Verizon did not have accurate records of the cable path from the building out to the street).

It just grates on me when I hear how Verizon wants to go whole hog into fiber and knowing that there will be lots of "exceptions".

Yes and this is the only way they can compete with the cable companies who pay a lot less in mandated taxes and surcharges. Once enough people move away from the regulated stuff, then they'll start regulating fiber and the rest of the IP type carriers. I have no inside info on that statement, but it is the government.

One of my sites received a call from an AT&T rep today, telling them they should replace their "old fashioned" POTS lines with new technology, for the same price.

I called the guy back and found that he was pushing IP Flex, which would actually be almost double in price. And by the way, you'll need to keep those POTS lines for your fax and credit card terminal.

With at&t about to hand over LEC duties in Connecticut to Frontier, should people be making any big changes until they know how things are going to flesh out?

I screwed up and discontinued our T-1 (Voice & Data)-- Unbeknowst by me, there was my copper modem line on the bill--an AT&T line that was resold by TDS Metrocom. Today I just got a new AT&T line in--Just a POTS. Works good. No problems in getting it.

We checked the nearest pedestal last week---not one copper circuit of any kind was there. At one time, the pedestal was almost full.

No one knows what the Frontier buyout means, AT&T customers or employees.

After AT&Ts stellar performance today, maybe Frontier will be better. We moved an office across town today, both locations served by the same CO. They killed the lines at the old site at 8:00 am and restored them at the new site at 4:00 pm.

We had an AT&T tech sitting in the basement for 5 hours, waiting for dial tone. 10 minutes after the tail lights disappear, so does dial tone on one of the lines. Had to open a repair ticket for next week.

Seems like at&t might not have pretested the new paths to verify all was well before the cut.

I doubt it. All our local service was sold to frontier with no warning. I got a higher bill, amd slower DSL as part of my "upgrade" at bayonet point. Frontier has never been anything better than unhelpful. I couldn't get DSL installed at my parents house 2 doors down frm me, even though the line to my house crossed their property within 20' of their house. Can't wait for them to be forced out of our area.

Must be a US thing with not wanting to put new copper in.

Here in Manitoba I saw that the Winnipeg Chapter of Habitat for Humanity had new copper extended to a redeveloped surplussed school yard by Manitoba Telecom Services that they were changing to a 30 home subdivision.

MTS just spliced into the existing copper on the back lane across the street and put a few aerial terminals on the new hydro poles.

Shaw cable also came in and extended their coax cable to the same subdivision the same way to give the new owners the choice of who they wanted as provider of TV and/or dial tone.

Part of the justification for wanting to run away from copper has to do with residential POTS lines being disconnected in liu of going 100% cellular. On the commercial side, many companies are migrating voice traffic onto data networks served by fiber. That leaves lots of copper out there not generating any revenue, and LECs are becoming increasingly reluctant to roll trucks to maintain unused infrastructure.

Wont happen here. I still see new pots lines going into retail busineses hooked up to Avaya and Cisco gear.