atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Outside Plant OSP Construction Utility pole replacement and ownership

Question for those who know:

When a shared access utility pole gets replaced (lets say it was owned by the power company as an example), the new pole is dropped next to the old one, poco moves their attachments over to the new pole and chops the top off the pole, leaving telco and cableco to move their stuff over... who owns the old pole? If the poco in this example, do the other utilities still pay an attachment fee on the old pole? or would the poco consider the old pole abandoned?

No particular reason I am asking. Just wondering. Around my parts, Fairpoint seems to be the slowest to move their attachments over to a new pole. Sometimes years if ever would they move their attachments over to a new pole, even ones where it is the simplest operation (new pole directly next to the old pole, plenty of slack, etc). I wondered if there was no financial reason to move over if the pole was abandoned and they didn't have to pay an attachment fee.

As far as I know whoever owned the old pole still owns it and is responsible for removing it once everything is off of it. I don't think it matters what pole (old or new) Fairpoint has their attachments on, they only pay for the one pole. I think they are dragging their heels because it costs them money to send a crew out. Also, they may be short on manpower or have to sub it out.

-Hal

In the old days when pole markers were numbers that were nailed to wooden poles, in the case of shared poles, the name of the company that set the pole was placed above the others.

Today, at least around these parts, new poles are marked with colored plastic and only by the company that set it. Verizon markers are orange while Eversource uses yellow.

Edison just replaced a bunch of poles in the neighborhood here. Yesterday an Edison SUV stopped in front of my house. One guy got out, grabbed a hammer from the trunk and ran over to the pole and nailed up an identifier.

Sam

Hal is correct. The actual pole owner is responsible for the entire pole down to the last attachment. HOWEVER, here is western PA, we have a unique situation where poles are jointly owned. This has to be a legal and paperwork nightmare. When the involved companies were Bell Telephone and the power company, the common practice was for the power company to do their thing and Bell Telephone would do their transfers and then cut or pull the entire pole out of the ground and carry it away.

Today, the situation is so complicated and confusing, some transfers take years to complete and a public safety issue hangs, (in some cases, literally) for months until all attachments are transferred.

Here is a situation which requires PUC (Public Utility Commission) intervention. There should be a time limit imposed for each attachment to be moved after notification. If the time is passed, the pole owner could move the attachment and back bill the attaching company. If an attachment company knew they would be on the hook to pay the owner to move their junk, I bet this would not be an issue.

Rcaman

With Verizon and at&t running away from copper landline service, how anxious are they to dispatch repair crews especially if there are no active pairs within any of the bundles

I've had a hard enough time trying to get Verizon out to re-hang dangling FiOS splice cases that are so low that a box truck could smack into them.

Here, when the power company owns the pole and gets sick of waiting, they cut the old pole off just below the attachment, rope it off to the new pole then remove the old pole. It's usually Verizon that is the culprit and even so it still can be years before they decide to transfer the attachment and remove the dangling piece of pole.

-Hal

like this:

At least they put a bolt through it. I have seen the cutoff pieces just dangling in mid air. Talk about an accident waiting to happen.

Rcaman

I have seen here that Manitoba Telecom / Shaw Cable / City of Winnipeg traffic Signals move their lines to the new pole in a timely fashion, and it still takes years for Manitoba Hydro to come back and remove the old stub.

What's the policy on the removal of old poles, once all attachments have been removed? In places around here, I've seen them cut flush with the ground, other places, it would appear the pole was pulled out and hole filled. Other places half a pole was left (free mailboxes I guess). Seems tacky to leave a pole in any fashion other than pulled out. But I guess that's a lot of labor (money) to do.

It all depends on who owns the pole and the local convention. Here, in Western PA, the poles are pulled out, either by the power company or Verizon or their contractor. The power company will remove the pole within days if the pole is clean, but when the cable companies get around to doing a transfer and then Verizon does theirs, it could be months, even years. It's a terrible situation.

Rcaman

When they pull the old poles out, do they have to have a dump truck of dirt/fill/sand to refill the holes?

More utility pole questions:

The LEC is dropping in new poles to replace old ones on a road nearby. All of the new utility poles have predrilled holes almost at the top, presumably for the PoCo to attach their crossbar. How do the LEC pole installers know where the holes are and if they are in the correct orientation when they are setting the pole in the ground? Or do they just set it any which way and let the PoCo deal with it afterwards? Or does the PoCo twist the pole when they are doing their work to get the holes to line up the way they need them?

...do they have to have a dump truck of dirt/fill/sand to refill the holes?

No, they use the dirt from the new hole to fill the old hole. A dump truck would have approximately 1,000 times as much dirt as required.

...does the PoCo twist the pole when they are doing their work to get the holes to line up the way they need them?

You must be kidding. Twist a pole once it's in the ground??? What would happen to the telephone cables that are already fastened to the pole? Would they twist around, too?

LOL...Good one Arthur. I think the OP is figuring the Power Company would be there first BEFORE any of the other utilities are transferred. Obviously the OP has never set a utility pole. Once in the ground and properly tamped, the pole is like it grew roots. It's going to stay right where it is set.

The crafts persons setting the pole are aware of the hole attachment orientation. They are pretty good at getting the pole in the proper orientation. The National Electrical Safety Code as well as the local utility companies have specifications as to the placement of power and communications on the poles.

Rcaman