atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems Merlin 820d wiring

I have an 11 pair cable running to a remote area of my building. I would like to install 3 merlin phones from that cable. Since that normally requires 12 pairs (4 per phone) I would like to know if any of the pairs are common to all extensions so perhaps I could get by with the 22 wires that are already installed.

Merlin 820D requires 4 pairs per set.

I couldn't share the power pair with 2 extensions?

It has been awhile, the brown pair pins 7-8 can be removed, it controls a feature that I can't recall at the moment what it is. Want to say handsfree possibly.

The speaker in the BIS sets.

-Hal

11 pair? what kind of wire is this?

There was 11 and 16 pair cable, much dating from the time when OSP cables included a spare pair for testing.

I don't think sharing power between ports will be an option, especially over a long cable run since the ports include power limiting resistors to prevent overheating. Yes, you can skip the white/brown pair for the stations but you'll lose the handsfree answer on intercom. Calls to these stations would have to be via intercom ring mode.

This is helpfull! THANK YOU
the 11 pair cable is vintage 1936 and was used for an interesting early intercom system

so it wouldn't likely be twisted pair , not sure if it would work for you

If the cable in fact will work send 2 merlins, and if you can find a merlin opx card you could make the 3rd phone a cv ??

Thanks KENB.....but I don't even know what a cv is...but I'm game to learn!

after 70 some years I think you got your moneys worth out of that cable

I would look at pulling a new 25 pair

(ought to hold you until 2077 )

CV- 2500 set -Home phone- single line set

It is really long time but I think 4th pair for Off Hook Announcement. 3 pair just what you would need.

Well, it's been a "ling" time for me as well, but here's the scoop!

Blue Pair was Talk, or as we know, T&R.

Orange Pair was DATA, you know, to tell the control unit what the phone was doing, and to tell the phone what the control unit wanted it to do. (As in Ring and/or change this LED from Red to Green, or whatever...)

The Green Pair was POWER, as in make all the other stuff work.

And, last but not least, the Brown Pair fed the speaker.

Remember, when you wanted to have Voice Announce over BUSY to an old ATL set, you had to "ROB" the Blue Pair of one extension port and put it on the BROWN pair of the one before it.

I hope this helps.

Hey merlinman,
Why are you trying make fun of me? Yes I wasn't born in USA but I think I have some knowlage and trying to help somebody as I can, cause everything I know, and I know a lot, I,ve learn myself. Yes my English writing skills not as good as yours but I am trying my best and sometimes people understand, besides maybe you, what I am trying to say. I admire your knowlage in Avaya and can learn from you too. But maybe sometimes you can learn from me as well.

Regards

PM sent.

Hey Vad60..why are so touchy....you would be better off reading and not writing if you can't take abit of humor...we all mis-type from time
to time.Understand this...you might need Merlin
man's expertise on one of your threads!!!!!!!!

All right!
Lets close the subject. I apologize to merlinman for being too touchy.

Thank you Vad

Now lets get back to the problem.

I agreee with Skip that wire is ready to be replaced and so is the phone system. A new digital system would be able to get 11 key phones on that wire

ok if you want you can use your 11 pair cable,and keep the HFAI with your last set , wire it from the cu with blue , orange & brown pair at your new location get a -48vdc + transformer and wire it to the green pair on the jack to the phone, done it many times

Vad,

You took me all wrong.

I too have trouble typing at times.

Many times I have entered "ling" instead of "long", not to mention many other typo's only to discover them about 1/2 milisecond after pressing the "ADD REPLY" button.

Hey, I was born in the USA, but guess what, that didn't help my typing skills a bit.

I think the people that designed the keyboard were part of a conspiracy.

-AND- I agree with moving this client to something newer and better.

(And perhaps, replacing that cable...)

you guys do realize if you click the pencil icon you can edit your post and correct errors

I use it ... A lot

Merlinman,
Never mind I dont know what happened to me. Usually I am not so defensive. Forget about it.
And I agree with your two last statements.
Thanks, Skip I did not know that.

"And now back to your regularly scheduled program" :thumb:

As I con't to post....Legend phone system are so
cheap now...it is stupid to stay with the older
Merlins that don't expand, integrate or have
all the features that the the Legends & Magixs
have.
I know, those of you techs that support the Merlin Classic line..hope you don't get a panic phone call..saying the red alarm lite is on and they are down...I have...always on a Friday or Monday morning.....when was the last time you had
a Legend PS or Processor go down????

With that small system why even bother with an upgrade to a Legend or Magix, that would be overkill. A new Partner would serve just as well and be less money.

-Hal

why??? then they can use the same tel sets...
Partner eq is not cheaper than the Legend...
besides this allows for growth..it also opens the
possiblity of VM...Have you priced ACS R6 or 7.
A control cabinet, A3 or C1 PS, CKE3...r7.0142
processor.....4x8 analog ckt pack...
Beat that!!!!


Sorry, no pricing in the public forums!

Dvader
Please feel free to pm your pricing comments
To Vad

Perhaps we should try not being so combative with responses. You are arguing your point with people who are very well-aware what these systems can do. You are pushing the buttons of several moderators here with such argument. You are also pushing the posting rules that you were supposed to have read and accepted before you became a member on this forum.

Your phrase "you techs that support the classic line" is a blatant insult. You are placing yourself above, or "better" than those of us who are willing to do provide this service for our customers. Believe it or not, many of us actually try to help our customers get the most mileage they can from their system. Sure, we aren't making as much money as a new system sale would land, but that's the cost of doing business.

If you broke your leg and the doctor's solution was that you'll just need to get a new leg, wouldn't you question such an assinine solution? Of course you would! Now, on the other hand, when a customer is simply looking to squeeze out some more use out of an existing cable, why not at least explore some alternate solutions?

I, along with most senior members here, am not going to shame a customer into a system change-out just because they need to add a station. They already know that they have an old system and they don't need to be reminded. Chances are they also have "old" computers too.

People have come here seeking suggestions for years because they can't afford a complete system replacement expense. Not everyone has this flexibility; remember that not all areas of the United States are as affluent as California.

The original poster wasn't asking for a system replacement suggestion. They were looking for the best way, if possible, to utiize existing wiring to add a station, period.

Unlike many Internet support sites, representing many trades, it is not our intention or policy here to shame people into buying new or even refurbished equipment. We are here to discuss and explore more rational solutions until all have been exhausted.

I think the original poster got an answer about the 4th post in this thread. The power on pair 3 can be supplied remotely, or locally via pairs 10 and 11 to add the 3rd phone.

Why customers do things is their business. I have a Spirit customer who bought 2 cabinets and a phone last summer to replace his broken system.
That and the replacement cable (don't ask me why a professional company pulls inside wire in an underground conduit) cost the customer less than $2K. It beat the price of a new system and 10 phones.

Carl who still has a 12 year old digital display set on his desk.

Well said,ED :thumb: :thumb:

OK, let's put this issue to bed and tuck it in one last time:

Issue 1, Yes, you can use the 11 Pair to operate 3 ATL Sets but only 2 can have a Speaker Wire.

3 X 4 = 12, so you could only have 2 with the FULL COMPLEMENT, and 1 would be without the speaker.

If you do not have a Feature Package, then you do not have speaker anyway.

Issue 2, I would dissagree with "Legend phone system are so cheap now...it is stupid to stay with the older Merlins...".

I would only replace that old MERLIN if it was failing or no longer meeting the client's needs.

As long as the 820 is working and meeting the client's needs, then I see no reason to upgrade it.

EXAMPLE 1) I had a MERLIN II that lost it's programming each and every time it lost power. REASON TO UPGRADE! Of course, this led to the sale of a Voice Mail and a very happy client.

EXAMPLE 2) Just worked on a MERLIN 410, Added 4th Line and 1 extension. - NO FEA PACKAGE.

This thing was probably put in BEFORE THE BREAK UP of the BELL SYSTEM. It will probably last forever, and this client will probably NEVER need any more extensions or lines.

If he does, then we talk about upgrade.

My feelings were not hurt by any comments on this forum, by the way.

I am having trouble installing jacks for a merlin 410 system. Does someone have the color codes for the cat5 jack? I tried both versions printed on the jacks I have, but neither worked. I know the system itself works becuase I can plug a phone directly into it. However, I need to replace the wall jacks as the ones there now are a smaller (6 wire) size.
any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Jimboâ„¢

Put regular RJ45 and make'em the same way as you do computer network. A or B doesn't meter unless you do the same on both ends.I like B type[(BL(4,5), GR(3,6), OR(1,2), BR(7,8)]

Welcome JimboRyan

The best way to get information is to start a new topic. For this question I recommend starting your topic in the Cabling section. Unrelated questions to original subject matter won't get you the exposure you need.