atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems IP Office - PARTNER Version

I'm looking for candid feedback from all of you (scary, isn't it?)

As you know, the IP Office PARTNER Version was released almost a year ago, and from sales results and the comments I've received from many of our partners, we did a fantastic job with this system.

Remember, the PARTNER Version is a TDM-based system targeted for the sub-30 marketplace. It replaced the PARTNER ACS and operates on a common hardware platform which provides growth, migration and investment protection, allowing you to easily migrate to the IP Office Essential Edition platform (TDM/IP based) when your customer is ready.

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Little Known Fact: Did you know you can install a system with the PARTNER Version SD card, then using Manager, switch your customer to Essential Edition without having to purchase a new SD card or recreate licenses?
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In November 2010, we introduced Release 6.1, which provided numerous enhancements:

- Unique Line Ringing
- 1 Touch Call Transfer
- Transfer return to a different extension
- Remote access to modem (x76) via AAT or DID
- Wake-up Service
- Start up / Shut down SD card via TUI
- View Feature Key ID via TUI
- View IP address via TUI
- Embedded Messaging Enhancements:
- Phantom Mailbox support without hardware
- (9) AAT / Sub-menus
- DID to AAT support
- Different selector codes based on time of
day
- Press 1 to bypass outgoing greeting
- Press # to end message
- Change old / saved message status to New
- Emergency greeting (per auti attendant)

In March 2011, we will launch Release 7.0, which will continue to enhance this platform:

- Expanded growth capability (up to 100 users)
- Expanded analog trunks (up to 32)
- Support both Key mode and / or PBX mode
- Flexible Dial Plan (fixed 2-digit or flexible
3-digit)
- Outcalling Notification (1 number/3 attempts)
- Message Alert Notification
- Absent Text Message Inspect
- Do Not Disturb Override List
- Embedded Messaging Enhancements:
- Increased Storage:
- 2 ports = 15 hours
- 4 ports = 20 hours
- 6 ports = 25 hours
- New Telephone Set Support:
- 9500 series digital sets (paperless)
- Nortel T-series sets
- Nortel M-series sets
- Continued support for PARTNER sets and
1400 series sets

As I've said to many of you in the past, yes I DO listen to your issues, concerns and feedback, and will always work towards implementing your requests whenever possible. I hope I have lived up to my word on this.

We are now preparing to work on the PARTNER Version Release 8.0 (estimated release: Nov 2011), and am seeking feedback from you as to what else is needed to continue to make this platform exceptional.

We are currently CONSIDERING the following enhancements for Release 8.0:

- Call Screening
- Thin Client Administration (use any browser
or even an iPad or tablet to admin system)

Embedded Voice Mail:
- Standardize on Intuity Audix TUI commands
- Full TUI programming of Voice Mail
- Password and Mailbox Reinitialization via TUI
- Hunt Group & Calling Group mailboxes

What else in Release 8.0 would you like to see to continue to make this the best small business system around? Please keep the following in consideration:

- This system, like PARTNER ACS, is targeted
for the sub-20 marketplace.
- This system is intentially meant to be kept
server-free (keep it simple for the end user)
- This system is meant to be non-IP based
(again, keeping it simple for the end user)

Please let me know what we need to consider. You can post on this forum, or e-mail be directly at: [email protected] with your requests.

I appreciate your input and your comtinued support. Thanks again!!

Ron Rogers
SMB Product Manager
IP Office PARTNER Version
Avaya Inc.

Ron,

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it my understanding that the IP Office Partner Edition cannot use any IP phones? Is this correct? If so, they why is it called IP Office?

I agree With Z.
I feel that if you get to a 100 user company, there WILL be a need for at least a VPN Remote phone.

Has it been discussed to adding a few IP Endpoints to the Partner Edition? Or, the ability to create IP trunks only, and use partner as a "branch" back to an IP Office???

We are currently CONSIDERING the following enhancements for Release 8.0:

- Call Screening
- Thin Client Administration (use any browser
or even an iPad or tablet to admin system)

Embedded Voice Mail:
- Standardize on Intuity Audix TUI commands
- Full TUI programming of Voice Mail
- Password and Mailbox Reinitialization via TUI
- Hunt Group & Calling Group mailboxes


All excellent in my book. The embeded VM is good but I miss the TUI administration like the old PM. Browser based administration would also be welcome.

As for the R7, Although I can't envision 100 extensions it can't hurt. At the least it certainly will quiet the complaints that Partner is too small.

As for IP extensions and trunks, I agree there might be a need but from a marketing standpoint I don't think the Partner should compete with the IPO. If the need arises for remote workers or to link systems then it's time to upgrade to the IPO which is easy enough to do from the Partner if you are using digital phones.

-Hal

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it my understanding that the IP Office Partner Edition cannot use any IP phones? Is this correct? If so, they why is it called IP Office?

Because it's based on the IP Office hardware. The name is a little awkward (I have never seen anybody get it right)- IP Office Essential Edition Partner Version. I realize that it describes the hierarchy but perhaps officially changing it to "Partner IPO" so that it carries on the Partner, Partner Plus, Partner II, Partner ACS convention?

How about it Ron?

-Hal

We are consolidating the software onto the IP500v2 chassis, and sharing some of the basic codes between the platforms. We are also standardizing on the IP Office name.

We are sharing virtually all of the hardware (control unit, modules, digital sets, etc.) between the PARTNER Version mode and the Essential Edition mode.

You can upgrade very easily to the IP OPffice Essential Edition by simply changing modes (via Manager) and adding the appropriate licenses.

Hope this answers your question.

Oh, and one thing I am not happy with in the embedded VM the lack of password protection for the AA menus. Anybody at any phone can change any of the menus just be entering the 4 digit code for a menu. I know recording new menus with the old PM was kind of a hassel but this is way too easy to get into. Also don't know why the menus are two-step.

-Hal

If it is targeted for the sub 20 market place, then why is it going to 100 users?

IMO, that would be a BIG plus.
We have a two location customer going in the end of this week and a three location next week.
Both customers would be a better fit for the Partner version, but due to the sites needing to be linked so they can have BLF's, transfer from site to site ect. with had to use the Preferred edition IPO with VM Pro instead of the Partner version.

Hats off to you for asking and keeping us in the link.

Will the Nortel sets, both T and M series, operate on the next release of IPO or just Rel. 7 of Partner?

I guess I will throw this out there too. I am not happy with the new "busines" plan that Avaya has adapted. Its not just Avaya, but all the makers now. By going to a platform of equipment that requires licensing, you have essentially taken away the ownership of equipment from customers. They will be constantly tied to you for everything. Small companies like ourselves will no longer be able to offer Avaya products because we will never be able to meet the high quota requirements of the GOLD dealerships. This in turn will expose a lot people to pay higher prices for equipment and service. With the internet now, customers have resources at their disposal that they never had. I lost a few of my Avaya customers to open source equipment because the quotes we gave them were substantially higher than the quotes they got for say an Asterisk, and with the Asterisk they weren't going to be bombarded with future license costs. I think this is something to consider when Avaya is trying to be competitive in the market.

It would also be nice if the Partner version IPO would support more than (18) Partner Euro phones.
We have several customers out there that has maxed out their ACS and need to expand, but frown about having to replace so many of their Euro sets to do so.

Thanks,

Well, lets look at apples to apples. You are saying that you lost a deal, to an open source system, that is free. Sort of makes it hard for anyone to compete against that price model.

But with the licensing, they dont lose their licensing. Avaya doesnt make you pay a recurring fee, its a one time license....
So if i sell you a vociemail pro license, and that pc dies, i dont have to buy a new voicemail pro, just the pc it is on...that is a huge investment protection.

I agree Matt. :thumb:

What are the chances of adding a key system emulation?

So most manufacturers are going IP. Where is the competition for a traditional, reliable, phone system?
You had the market cornered with the Partner, and blew it when it was discontinued.
But now I'm super cool. I can program a system now at the bar from my IPhone

First of all I love call screening. Good addition glad you are considering it.
Thin client admin another great idea.
You also have my vote on mailboxes for groups.


Support for more legacy sets, limit of 16 too small. Have a lot of Partners at capacity or with lots of large and/or relatively new phones. The need to add T-1, SIP/PRI, or more users could motivate a customer to upgrade from a legacy switch, if he didn’t need to replace so many phones.

Would like to see the legacy Partner sets supported when upgraded to IP Office mode. Real investment protection.

I would love to see ASA, an underutilized feature on ACS; maybe because of hardware, and/or a lack of knowledge of most sales personnel.

Add Centrex transfer option to automated attendant selector options.

Add additional night service groups. Some small businesses have multiple operations.

How about the ability to login/out of hunt groups?

Thanks for asking for input!

I think you are missing my point a bit. Why would someone buy an IP Office knowing they have to buy licenses, when they can buy open source without license restrictions? Why the change from the old days when you just had to add hardware to expand?

Why would someone buy an IP Office knowing they have to buy licenses, when they can buy open source without license restrictions? Why the change from the old days when you just had to add hardware to expand?

It really isn't any different now and you know I would be the first to agree with you if you were correct. You add hardware same as before. Sometimes you already have the hardware and need a license to activate features. Take VM ports. Didn't you have to buy a license to expand the VM capacity even back with the Mail VS? How about the Partner Voice Messaging PC card- for up to 4 mailboxes you buy the small. Need more, buy the large. Need ASA buy an ASA card. What's the difference if capabilities are already built in and you have to buy a license to activate them vs buying a physical card or firmware?

And you really can't compare Asterisk to the IPO. Pretty much like comparing Yugo to Ford.

-Hal

My biggest problem is that it doesn't support more Partner sets, as you know your not going to get a fuzzy feeling from a customer when you tell him in order to upgrade from your current ACS you will only be able to use 18 of your 34 sets, it would be much easier to sell if it were truly backward compatible.

With the IP Office you have to buy the hardware and licenses to expand. Now I would prefer an IP Office because of its ability to handle TDM sets. But outside of that, tell me what advantage does a customer gain by going IP Office verses Asterisk? Its difficult to convince a customer to spend twice as much for basically the same capabilities.

Another thing that is being slightly overlooked is that licensing is tied to each individual customoer. There won't be any reselling of used equipment outside of the phones.

I agree Russ. We too have a lot of partner systems out there that are maxed out and these guys want to use their old stuff. I will say, that I do like the looks of the new 1400 series sets that they came out with.

Another thing that is being slightly overlooked is that licensing is tied to each individual customoer.

It is??

-Hal

Oh, really. Funny, I've heard the same about Definity. And yet, I've been involved in the installation of complete used Definity systems. No licensing problems have popped up on them. I will say that they were usually being moved from a closing motel to another property, generally not owned by the same individual/group. I assume the licensing on the secondary market only affects whether or not you can get help from Avaya, and how much it would cost without a 'license'.

Z-Man, as much as I enjoy your point of view on other threads, I feel you are completely off base here. You are trying to compare a FREE pbx to an IP Office. That is like arguing between CentOS (free Linux OS) and Windows.

NOW, back on topic. Ron, I do appreciate the opportunity you have given this board by opening this thread.

Do you have some input on the feasibility of some of the features that people have requested here?

Quick recap of features:
Adding a vpn phone or 2 to Partner Edition
Centrex transfer
Huntgroup Login/out
Browser management
Password protect AA Menus
Increase ETR capacity above 18
Partner sets on IPO
Auto System Answer (ASA)

Zane, lets keep this thread on topic and not turn it into a debate or a discussion about comparison.
You have made you point very clear, but the OP was simply asking for input and you have made your point very clear.

Thanks,

Ron, Great thread.
If I recall right abouit 50% of all customers are 10 phones and under. In my rural market it is 50% of the customers are 6 phones and under. A few years ago you introduced a Partner SOE that sold here like hotcakes. We could be in the same ball park as the other brands for the 4 phone dentist office. We made bank. And increased market share.
The smaller configs just are not price competitive as far as I can see.
I would like a smaller, cheaper, maybe limited license, Partner Version for the simple 4 to 7 phone market place. Any chance of helping us out here?

Think of your travel stop (3 lines 4 phones and overhead paging). They have a couple thousand to spend. (I was just at one of our customers this weekend). The Version is about 50% than the SOE- maybe double the price.
I would caution this- dont make the Version too complicated. The IPOffice is for customers that want complicated. The Version I thought was for inexpensive simple installations. From a sales point, give us something easy to use and demo, cheap to install, and quick to sell.

Think of your travel stop (3 lines 4 phones and overhead paging). They have a couple thousand to spend.

The Partner Version would be close to that number with a decent profit for you. As for the SOE, I don't know what the sales numbers on it were but I don't think they were very good. I do know that we never sold any.

I think your whole problem is with the part about "they have a couple of thousand to spend". Customers rarely have a conception of what anything like this costs and just pull a number out of a hat. If you are going to look for something to sell to meet their number instead of them meeting your number you are not doing either of you any good. They get junk and you get beaten down.

-Hal

Hal
New York has bigger richer customers I guess. About 40-50% of our installs were SOE packages. It was designed for the 4-6 phone market. Their conception of what a phone system in this market should cost was given to them many times by the price shown on our competitors bid. We had to be in that ball park most of the time. We could be more, but not that much more regardless of the best sales techniques, cost justification, etc. Lets avoid a discussion about sales techniques.. the bottom line is that in our market and with the 4-6 phone customer many times the product offerings become a bit commoditized and brand a looks similiar in their mids to brand b and c (even though there could be huge differences) and so all three brands, in the customer minds, should cost about the same and if they are a bunch higher they get thrown out regardless of how good they are.
All I am saying is that the Version needs to compete with the other brands in the 4-6 set market place to be a good offering for those of us out in the rural markets. Give us an SOE type offering please!

The two times Avaya tried what you suggest (the Endeavor and the ACS SOE) they were big flops. Without knowing who your competitors are, what they are doing and what you pay I can't say why there would be such a huge difference (50%) in pricing. Right now the IPO Partner Version is priced much less than an old ACS system with the same features so it's right there with other comparable manufacturers. I have a feeling that your customers have been looking a Yugos and you are showing them Ford.

-Hal

I agree with others that the biggest shortcoming with the IPO Partner version is the limited number of Partner phones that can be supported. I understand the logistics around creating an expansion mod for these phones. The trouble is that we have a great "evergreen" path for small Partner systems, but not larger ones. And mixing/matching phones on one system can cause needless heartache.
Mike

mixing/matching phones on one system can cause needless heartache

I guess this is another one of those "damned if you do or damned if you don't" situations. Try to do something to help a customer and you get screwed. Problem with customers today is that if you give them a hand they want the whole arm and a leg too. I wouldn't be surprised if the friction and negative feelings caused by not being able to reuse all of a customers' old ETR Partner phones loses more sales than if that never was an option and the customer had no choice but to replace all the phones as part of the upgrade. Then it becomes something they need and they will have to resign themselves to it if they want a new system, not have the thought always in the back of their mind- why should I bother, our old phones work fine and how much money can we save.

I do understand the thought that it can sometimes give us a foot in the door for existing customers, but reusing old phones with the IP Office Partner Version is like putting a new engine in a 15 year old clunker. Nothing has really changed as far as anyone can see, he can't take advantage of many of the new features so he isn't getting all his money's worth.

-Hal

Ok, I have a few things to add to this. I am a big fan of linux and asterisk, and Avaya. Asterisk is free but the hardware is not. When it boils down to it, it will cost the same or close to Avaya equipment depending on what the person wants. Also there are way more people that know avaya equipment than Asterisk/Digium. Just because the application is free doesnt mean it is a "free" pbx. Now on to my IPOPE rant! Avaya if you are really listening.......

Why cant an analog station have Automatic line selection??? Ohhh but the ETR cards do it. Yeah I want to sell my customer an ETR card so their fax machine can get automatic line selection and have calls ring the fax station. When the customer wants the 1416 phones.

Also why does the AutoAttendant not cover the weekends?????? Come on thats just dumb! I could care less that there is a stupid morning,afternoon,evening greeting.

Why is it that when I install a system I have to format the SD card and reinstall the system files just so the freaking thing will back up to it, otherwise when it reboots I loose all button programming. This happens on every IPOPE install.

Another issue I have is the waiting for 2 rings for Caller ID to come in. Thats awesome make the light go red, and the person calling hears two calls, now it rings possible 2-3 times before the person picks up. The fix is to disable caller id on the trunk, stupid! Why not just let it ring through like the partner and we can tell the customers if you want to see the caller id wait for the second ring.
Dont get me wrong I love the IPO platform and going to the IPOPE is a good thing, I understand the ease of upgrading.

I agree with the Caller ID issue. The same thing happens in native IPO mode using analog trunks. Would be nice if calls would just go straight thru, and then wait the two rings for the Caller ID.

I know other systems that do this also so it's not something new. I do know that with the old Partner, if you set the AA to pick up immediately (zero rings) you will not get the CID information and that's bad, especially if you log all calls. None will be logged during night service. I've had problems with customers and this issue myself. If you need the phones to ring, say during the day with the AA picking up at zero rings for night service there is really no way around it other than I suppose delayed ringing on all extensions then have the AA pick up after one or two rings- but then you create the same situation as with the new IPO Partner.

I think this is just something you need to get used to, it really does have a purpose.

-Hal