I dont know if this happens alot in the telecom world, but since we've had the company (13 years) its happened at least 3 times to us at it happened again today.

Someone in your company who you trust and have not only taught but supported when they werent producing and should probably have been let go decides that they should start thier own company, using the sales prospects and skills that you paid for them to develop. As much as it out and out sucks on the business side, the betrayal feels all the worse.

Yes, I'm sure it happens alot. It has happened to us a couple of times. I know how you feel.

Don't let it bum you out.That is just a natural progression; it happens in the residental building trades all the time. You learn the ropes from your employer and when you get your ducks in a row and you leave to start your own buisness. You can't make any real money working for someone else. What I think is wrong, is if they steal clients, buisness or equipment from their current employer.

The betrayal of someone you have brought up and showed the ropes is tough to swallow. It has happened to anybody that has owned a successful business. Just remember when you come up against him on a job you taught him all that he knows. If he has struggled in the past he will struggle again. And when your at the palm beach hotel sipping Singapore slings he will not matter anyway.

They have to do their first independent job somewhere, at least he got some training...thanks to you.
I'd say he owes a at least a beer.

Yes, we have had this happen several times in the past. Anyone must stick to the high road and turn the other cheek.

Just about two months ago we went up against one of our former sales reps on a quote and all vendors had to present their quote to the board with all others present. He got so nerves that I almost felt sorry for him.

But we won the bid!!!!!

Most of the people that I have known that have received all their training from their employer . Then left to start up their own company have either fallen on their face or have had to set the company up in a different city/state . I only know of one silver tongued bull shi$er that competed with the company he left that actually stayed in business very long . That guy could sell sand to an Arab !

I feel that this subject is a double edge sword if there ever was one. And it not only applies to telecom but every field there is. I’ll go ahead and apologize for the length of this post now because it’s gonna take a while for me on this one.

Here goes:
Your view differs from every angle depending upon how you are looking at it. One view appears to be as wide as a six lane highway. Yet from another angle it looks as small as the edge of a razor blade.

I am not for backstabbing, stealing equipment, bad mouthing…… all the associated bs such as that.
As mgere said, it is the nature of things to change. We all try to improve our life and support our family the best way we possibly can.

Stop and think of how you got the experience you have gained and how you apply that knowledge today. If you were trained by a former employer and decided to branch out on your own or go to work for another company, why did you do that? And if you currently work for the company ( or person ) that taught you the ropes do you feel obligated to work for them for the remainder of your career no matter what happens?

I feel that if I take care of my customer and do what they pay me to do they can not be “stolen” by anybody. Yes, we all loose customers to gimmicks and sweet heart deals offered by the “big boys” ( and Girls for you ladies ) as well as new managers from the customer’s end. But I have found that the majority of them come back sooner or later. Some, I will “take back”…. as for the others I will recommend they should just stay with the “new” vendor.

I guess it all goes back to something I firmly believe: People ( even people you think you know better than they know themselves ) will do anything when it comes down to their family or yours.

I agree with Bobby. It's natural for it to upset you that someone is leaving to start their own business. But, that's how I got started and how most other business owners get started.

Anyone has a right to leave, slavery has been outlawed except for some very interesting couples but I digress.

He has NO right to take any leads with him. If he has any honor, he will start cold calling or putting up ads or whatever.

If you try to keep a friendly relationship you may find someday that you need him or you sell him something. There in no need for bitterness, you may feel it but you don't have to act on it.

I've been running my own storefront company office for about 18 years. Before that I worked for my first employer and did 60% of the sales among the three people who "worked" there.

When the owner decided to cut my commissions in half, I gave him 30 days notice and he immediately showed me the door. Little did I know he wanted half of my commissions so he could buy a lot more cocaine. A year later the company folded and all the employees who had invested in the company lost everything. People come and go for different reasons. Maybe he was just unhappy not greedy. Maybe he had to go out and prove himself, this is normal occurance, not treachery.

This could work out for you. You have less payroll, if you get stuck for help, maybe you could have him sub part time, he is trained.

His leaving can be a lemon or lemonaide, its just how YOU handle it. And it is OK to make it clear that YOUR customers are YOURS and it is OK to go find new ones for himself.

I was talking to an interconnect owner a few years back who had an interesting spin on this problem. He had two separate incidents where he hired a new tech and after spending thousands of dollars sending them on all the official NEC training, they were hired away by NEC.

He was a little bitter about that.

I know that change is a natural part of business and life, and that everyone starts out somewhere. My problem isnt competition, and it isnt that I feel like they are endentured slaves.

Heres my problem: I play by the rules. I dont take anything from anyone. When I make a sale, I dont trick them into it, or lie to them to make it. Two people meet on equal ground and come to an arrangement that is beneficial to both parties. When we started our company, we didnt take anything from our previous employer. Customers, Equipment, etc and I never worked on my own company on someone else's dime.

I know this is just business and we arent supposed to take it personally, but the more I hear that the more I think it is absolutely wrong. There is nothing more personal to me than my business, and the fruits of my effort. Anyone who tries to take what is mine, and what I have earned by either deception or force is not just taking those things from me, he is violating the rules I live by, and has no place in my life.

Being in Green Bay, you see this posted around alot, and I think it applies:

"It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive men. That's why they are there — to compete. To know the rules and objectives when they get in the game. The object is to win fairly, squarely, by the rules — but to win"
- Vince Lombardi

I do not think that the problem is leaving a company that may have trained you....it is in HOW you leave. If you dilligently put in your notice, make it known to your boss that you appreciate what he/she has done for you and that you are just trying to make it on your own then I think that things would go much better.

I once had an employee litterally LIE about having medical problems, a failing marriage and loosing his house just so that he could get time off to start his own company. NONE of the things he said were true. Had he taken the high road and said what was really on his mind then things would have been much better. In the end he could not make it in the same city and had to move a few hours south, but was it really worth his reputation, and his integrity? A man (or woman) is built on their integrity, without it you are nothing and can NEVER be trusted in business or life.

Honestly, there is no reason to lie, like what has been said, people are free to start their own company, they may as well do it with class. Everyone started somewhere, but is it all in HOW you start that makes all the difference in the world.

Steve

I think that this is something that ANYONE who hires an employee has to face, prepare for and deal with. It's just part of the wonderful world of business ownership.

What truly really baffles me is all the lying and BS that manufacturers do. I mean we all hear the stories from old as well as new product mfg's (some even on this board) about how they value distributors, and want to build a channel and treat all the installer/resellers fairly yatti ya and then stab you in the back by taking your bigger deals direct, or giving different priing to say internet stores who don't install then they do to you.

They somehow believe that you won't find out and think that somehow this will increase their total sales. Look at Avaya and Panny with all their gray market crap. Do they actually think that their increasing total sales by taking it away from an authorized dealer who follows the rules and commits to trying to meet number and giving it to a gray market guy?
That's what I truly don't get.

I went through this with Polycom Video conferencing. They figured, oh if there are 10 dealers selling 500 units then 100 dealers will sell 5000.. They whored it out to every internet catalog store that forked out some buck and guess what, their sales didn't go up because every honest guy who was out there working hard on getting the unit out there and promoting it said screw this. One mfg is doing the same thing now. Great product, NILL channel support or protection and their taking the profit and the customers. It may work in the short run, but not for long.


C

BacherJr, One answer might be to have your tech's sign some kind of agreement that they can't/won't leave the company (and start their own) after x amount of year's, after training .... continued training....(And ya know they wont like that. )


Altimatly, Everyone Goes to where the MONEY is.

You must get all employees to sign a non-compete and non-disclosure agreement. This means they can't legally do business with your clients or give your client list to others. Without this type of agreement there is not much you can do.


People only do what they know how to do and then only if there is some reward in it for them. If you want to encourage a behavior, first you must teach it, then you must measure it, and then you must reward it. Train - Measure - Reward.

There are many kinds of rewards. Money is one, but rivalry and recognition are other very strong rewards that are based on instinct and don't cost you anything except the time to think out how to use them.

Resentment is a waste of time. If they leave, you are probably better off without them. Very often they will return to you either as employees, subcontractors or partners.

How true, Mike:

In my experience, the bad ones go to work for competitors who are offering unrealistic wages and benefits. These people are offered wages for what they claim they can earn for the company, not what they are actually capable of earning for the company. Many times, these people come with heavy baggage but greed clouds a new employer's judgement. I admit that I fell for that a few times and regret it to this day. Never again, that's for sure!

Anyone who would hire someone without demanding a reference from their current employer is a fool. People lie so much. When a prospective employee requests that you NOT contact their current employer, well there's your sign. Red flag for sure.

I have a very stringent anti-competition agreement in place as part of our basic employee handbook. I could and I should sue the people who break this, but in reality, it's usually good riddance to let the competition deal with them. If they were costing me, they are costing someone else even more.

Now on the other hand, the few that were honest enough to tell the truth upon leaving are different. If I can't match a competitive wage, that's fair game and I appreciate the opportunity to match it. If they were starting their own company, changing careers, etc., they have my respect. I have even helped some of them get started out. Several are still in the area and others are in different areas of the country. I always go to them first to refer business since I know their caliber and quality.

Honesty is the best policy. Dishonest people belong in their own puddle of mud. It's been raining quite a bit around here lately.

Where I work I had to sign a "no competetion" agreement. If I part ways from my employer I cannot set up my own company for 36 months in the same area. I am free to go to another city or state to set up shop, but not here in my employers territory. Just my two cents worth.

This is an April post ???

Employment is not slavery. You do not have to move out of town to earn a living if your present job ends. This is against public policy and the case law.

Many non-compete agreements are written that way, but the law will not enforce them. I have even heard of lawyers writing agreements they knew were not enforceable just to scare lay people. Of course dishonest lawyers are the exception. :thumb:

A non-compete agreement must be reasonable as to time, place and scope for it to be enforceable. You may be able to stop a former employee from stealing your clients, but you cannot stop him from dealing with anyone and everyone in town!

Edited for post length.

Ed, I hope to work for you in my next job, if that happens. This is how I want my current employer and my future employer to treat me.

In return, I promise to find my replacement and train him/her. I feel that is a fair agreement.

I was brought in and taught by a guy that was with the Bell company 20yrs before anyone knew Judge Brown. He taught me the old Bell way, and by damn, I will continue it.

I do want to ask the original poster if he will let us know the age of the betrayer. I am just asking for my own personal prejudice.

Thanks,
Scott

Edit to add: Sorry to necropost. I don't look at the dates on posts, but it was at the top so I get a pass. Micheal you seem to be for non-compete agreements before you voted against them. Luckily you are in Maryland with me, where the confusion is, well, par for the course. Yes, Maryland is heavily biased for the employer when it comes to work disputes, but I don't think the original poster was talking about legal action. More so, I think he was talking about the fact that he was blind sided by someone that he invested time and money into to get the guy to point where he wasn't standing on the dumb side of the measuring tape. I am very grateful for the opportunity that my mentor gave me. He is few, few, few and far between. Well he happened to work for the company that I am with now. He is at the big C.O. in the sky and I am left here doing adds, moves, and changes. He taught me how to treat an employer. Most of the time it was a bit passive agressive toward "senior leadership". That term always cracked him up. But he taught me to respect where the paycheck came from. I wouldn't dishonor that for anything.

No one could keep me from working, but it comes down to respect. Some have it, and most don't.