I understand that you can use Cisco phones with other IP based PBX systems, but does Cisco offer a system of their own to work with their IP phones?

They have Call Manager and Call Manager Express

What exactly is CallManager? From what I have read, it looks like it is an application that you install on a PC. Is this correct?

From what I have seen, it is a head ache waiting to happen, I have seen some installs go well...but overall I am not a fan

https://img282.imageshack.us/my.php?image=realization1zq.jpg

ROFL, Anthony!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ibex:

That's exactly what happens; it's an application running on a dedicated server. Patches or upgrades are required regularly in order to keep everything running properly. It's not a job for the faint of heart and definitely commands a strong knowledge of computer networking AND telecommunications. That's a lot on most peoples' plate.

As I brought up in a different thread...
Saw a demo yesterday. In this instance it's a local company that has an existing Avaya Definity G3si. They are migrating to the Cisco Call Manager. About half way there. Outside trunks are connected to the Cisco, about half the stations are still on the G3. This install has been in place for 6 months with no problem. The user interface is very appealing.
As I told Cisco/it's business partner, I am naturally hesitant. They made a good case for their product. Good enough to make me think about it.
These things are a given:
1. Telephone systems are moving to IP.
2. Having IPT experience on my resume will help, maybe nessesary in the future.
3. I don't want to be standing in the dust (or would it be ether?) with a buggy whip in my hand.
4. It all depends on the health of your data infrastructure. Grrrrr

Richard

We just lost a 200+phones customer to a Cisco install recently. Bosses want the Cicso phone on their desk. Cisco has great marketing of their phones; they are seen everywhere(TV shows, news programs, banks, etc). They upgraded all cable to cat6, new gigabit switches for who knows what cost(semi-future proofed and eliminated QOS issues). Customer was in the mindset to replace rather than upgrade existing system even though it was way less expensive. Cisco will work its way down to the smaller systems eventually. I think manufacturers of other systems need to allow the CISCO phones to work on their systems (SIP) so the boss gets his/her CISCO phone and they still get the system sale. There is going to be some more consolidation next year or some other manufacturers disappearing...The whole landscape is changing with Microsoft planning on releasing their VOIP system next year, desk phones may not be around in the next 10 years. With kids today using IM and cell phones, they will just want to use them instead of being tied to desk. All cell phone providers need to do is have transfer/conference feature and desktop application for voicemails and the pbx could be eliminated in alot of offices....

i have installed sisco 7920 ip wireless handsets to old legendspbx works ok but the pickup and page features are lousy

What Ed said is correct. The place I work converted to a Cisco system a couple months ago. The station related changes are handled by an in-house telephone tech. The IT people handle the computer networking. A year or more ago I had the chance to work with a demo Call Manager and Cisco phones. The line, trunk, and route provisioning appear to be things that someone with PBX or C.O. switch background could handle without much trouble. Setting up the network is another matter. I think you’d want a good background in computer networking. I keep reading and hearing that the data network is the key to success. I agree with this.

When our conversion took place a couple months ago I entered a post summing up how I felt the cutover went and how the service was. I’ll not go into those details again except to say that I was very disappointed that the vendor and the IT department did not do adequate testing prior to the cut. I identified most of the problems and I wasn’t part of the process. I also wrote that we had experienced some echo problems but they appeared to have been resolved.

I was writing this reply yesterday and I was interrupted by a call. I had the echo problem on that call. I spoke to the telecom person. He said he had gotten a couple of call about jitter. He said he was working with the vendor so I guess there are still a few problems.

I’m not sure what the future of IP telephony is. I suspect that it is here to stay and that it will improve over time. As an old, former, and 4th generation telephone person I naturally favor traditional telephone systems using the traditional telephone network. However, I know things change. We went from open wire to fiber optics. We change the way we do our business with the change of technology. Everything new has a period where the bugs are getting worked out. The important thing is having people involved who understand what providing good service means. Telephone people know this. They are familiar with the 5 nines. I’m not that all IT people understand this. What I saw where I work attested to this. I have spoken to other people who had less than successful conversions. IT departments controlled those conversions.

This is not meant as a slap at IT people. Most of the IT people I know a nice people and very talented and very knowledgeable. However they lack the experience when it comes to implementing a telephone cutover. They don’t know the pitfalls because they haven’t experienced them. Many will gain that experience but I think there will always be a place for telephone people even in a world of IP telephony. Sorry for the long post.

You know there is something about having a phone system running on any version of Microsoft Windows/Server, that just seems like a bad idea. Kind of Like Driving across country in car that had 4 flat tires, sure you'll get there but how many times will you have to stop and put air in? There are lots of IP-enabled Traditional PBXs out there, with Great GUI Tools.

I Tell my customers considering Cisco or a Complete IP Phone system how many times in the last year has your network been down? Imagine if everytime it was down you couldn't even make a phonecall to Tech support or call 911?

bf6b5yr
Well said. Uh, what are the 5 nines? Maybe I know but don't know that I know, ya know?

Dustin Owens,
Your analogy would work better if you said four leaking tires instead of four flat tires.
Your last paragraph is the argument I made to the Cisco folks. Phone system rarely goes down. Data network is ready to go at any moment.
Granted, if a PBX had to do the amount of work the typical data network handles, not just in terms of traffic but running so many disparate applications, it would choke too.

Perhaps this should be the new definition for Convergence:
A way for Cisco to make more money (which is fine btw) and forces Avaya, Nortel, et al to follow suit to keep up.

Richard

99.999 percent uptime, the typical minimum for telecom or critical data networks.

Thanks for the replies guys! I have heard that the latest version of Call Manager is Linux based. Does anyone know if it is its own application built for Linux or if it actually installs Linux and Call Manager onto an empty hard drive? Also, were the older versions Windows based?

If you go to Cisco website you can see all the release info on call manager, older versions ran under windows server, 5.0 started to run under linux:

https://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/voice/c_callmg/index.htm

Im a phone guy (21 yrs) that has an MCSE with Security Designation.

Dont make the same mistake I did and get the MCSE certification because then you will go insane with this stuff.

Atleast before I was on the telephone side.

Now? I dont know anything.

IIRC the Prologix is running embedded windows, isn't it?

Also, my company makes one of the best dialers on the market using NMS boards and a Windows 2000 Pro for the server - we have had customers with five 9s. These are used in Collection Call Centers where every minute the dialer is down is lost money - so we can't use a system that won't stay up. One of our customers has our system making 40,000 broadcast messages calls per hour with complex autopay IVR functions - Windows hasn't choked yet. Failure in this case is drive burn out do the the millions of read/writes happening.

Usually any down time is realted to the end user trying to tweak something (like call routing) without knowing what they are doing or stopping services.

What are the pros and cons of Call Manager vs other competing manufactures' IP systems?

I'd imagine one pro is that you could install it on an existing server without the need to buy/lease other equipment.

"I'd imagine one pro is that you could install it on an existing server without the need to buy/lease other equipment."
I'm afraid not, Cisco not only needs a dedicated server, but they need several dedicated servers to support a decent feature set. One server for this feature, another server for that feature and so on!

More servers isn't really a bad thing. Having a 'Publisher' server and a 'Subscriber' server could be viewed as the equivalent of redundant CPUs in a traditional system. Adding another server for voicemail is not unlike most traditional systems. Then, yes, you can add even more servers for additional 'features'. But those additional features would require additional hardware in a traditional system too, if those features are available at all.

By the way, a server is a pretty inexpensive piece of equipment in the grand scheme of things.

My experience has been primarily Norstar and BCM. I remember the days when losing a harddrive just meant that voicemail was going to be down for a day or two. Now, on BCM50, you lose the harddrive and you've lost EVERYTHING. The BCM could benefit from an additional 'server'.

The model for 'traditional systems' is looking more and more like the Cisco model. The more that happens, the more I like Cisco. Afterall, THEY have the grandfather rights in that area.

All IMHO, of course. :thumb:

I can buy the idea of multi servers for the sake of redudancy--but not for the sake of features. PBX, voicemail, call center, etc. should all be software that installs on the same platform. It would seem to me that consolidation brings ease of management and a lower price tag. Oh! and don't for Cisco support contracts for each one of those servers!
also IMHO!

Redundancy is a GREAT reason, so is scalability.

And, keeping MAJOR applications isolated from one another isn't bad either. If my voicemail crashes, it shouldn't have to bring down my call center (on Norstar and BCM it would).

I'm picking on Nortel a bit here, because it's what I know the best, but A LOT of traditional systems are the same way. That being said, on the large system side, traditional manufacturers are already separating those MAJOR applications. From Nortel you might have an Option 11/61/81 or CS1000 (multiple servers?) for the PBX itself, CallPilot (multiple servers?) for voicemail, Symposium for the call center, MCS5100 for presence and collaboration...etc. And, yes, maintenance would be needed on each of the MAJOR components. I won't speak to equipment that I don't touch, but I KNOW other manufacturers have similar models.

Sorry ibex, we have digressed.