My office is in the process of moving and needs a new phone system. We have had comparative bids from NEC (Electra Elite IPK) Comdial (DX-80) and Intertel (Intertel Access). I need to know any pros or cons of these systems. Which system is going to work best for my office(New office will have my business and a tenant. 18 handsets and about 10 lines.) Any suggestions or info would be appreciated.

First thing you need to do is throw away all of those bids and call Russ (DTMF here on the board) and get a bid from him.
(dtmf) Russ Brandes- SLC, Utah-office 801-562-5576 cell801-244-8665 - IM [email protected]

Avaya Partner, Comdial, Telrad

Today

Russ should be able to get you taken care of with a quality system.

jspeterson,

I see you want something that will grow as well as accept new upgrades in the future, I would have to say that the Telrad would be something you may want to look into. Depending on how big you are looking to grow the Nec and Panasonic are others you may want to look at also. And of course lets not forget the Avaya it may just be the most user friendly system out there.

[This message has been edited by dtmf (edited August 19, 2004).]

Inter-Tel is a great phone system, but it can be pricy. It will do all you want and need it to do.

just about any system out now will meet your needs.
some things to consider:

The shop: HAve they been around a while? How long have they had the product? What type of warranties? How long will they give free programming changes? and what type of training.

Equipment. HOw much will it cost to add a phone later? is it a brand new release? or is it so old that it may be discontinued to where you will only be able to get refurb parts?

Grant it some systems are stronger than others and somettimes that strength comes with a strong price. Sometimes you can get a lot ofr bang for your buck but when you have a lot of problems because the software still has bugs...

Anyway it is best to shop for a quality Vendor and let them decide for you. A good shop would become a partner with you. Decide what you want the system to do and then what you would like the sytem to do. Make it clear to the shop that you decide upon. give a realistic price target and the shop will give you the best they have to offer. Then, scour message boards, find complaints and make sure the shop can address them to your liking. I don't know DTMF, but if his shop is as good as his knowledge on these boards you cana't go wrong.

My impression of the newer Comdial products is very, very, poor. There quality control and quality of product has gone down the tubes.
The Intertel is a great product, but it is very pricey.
Talk to Russ!
The Avaya or the Telrad would probably be the best way to go.

TOE SHIBA is the way to GO........

I agree with all the comments in this thread but I will say it another way.
PICK A GOOD VENDOR, (DTFM) then let the vendor ask about your business, and let the vendor pick the phone system he thinks is best for you. I know dtmf will give you excellent service.

When you post a blanketed statement like that. I think you need to Clarify more about what product you are talking about.

I want to clarify this. I assume you are talking about what products you deal with. I am assuming you have only dealt with the DX-80. Yes, this product is on the low end.

Every company out there has there low end product. They want to compete with the small business field.

The small businessman what's to pay nothing and get everything, so more money is dumped into software apps then into quality of the phones.

For what the DX-80 is, it does allot for the money.

Now if you want to look at the Comdial FXII. That is a quality product and I would put it up against any other system for the same price.

We sell NEC and Comdial and just like everybody else that makes phone systems. There are issues but they work on them and get them resolved.


You get what you pay for with product and service.

Yes, you might find that Joe down the street will cost you only 60 dollars and hour for service, but will he fix it within that hour? Does he have the resources to resolve the issue? will it take him 3 visits to get it resolved.

These are issues you should be looking at also when selecting a dealer to service and install your new system.

my 2 cents...

I have to agree with bigdog about pauls post, I also thought it was harsh. I've been selling dx80 since it first came out and have had very good luck with it.
mark

My comments were directed primarily at the quality and durability of the telephones themselves. We are a telephone repair and refurbishing company.
The products that I was referring to were the 83xx series phones and the DX-80 phones. The rate of failure of the components, especially the LCDs, the quality and durability of the housings, and the design of the phones themselves.
They seem to be built to be throw-aways just like most home cordless phones.
We repair many, many, many, 10-15 year old Executech phones. I doubt that 25% of the 8324s will have displays that last 4-5 years. I doubt that a DX-80 telephone could survive 2 years in any kind of heavy-use environment, like a restaurant or a garage.
The 64xx, 66xx, 77xx, and 80xx phones were all designed and built to be workhorses. They are built to last. I cannot, in any honesty, say the same thing regarding any of the newer Comdial telephones.

I apprieciate your opinion. However many of us are in the business of selling this equipment, and they now carry a 3 year warranty.The new longer warranty means you will see fewer and fewer since your business is out of warranty repair. Futhermore, when you get them, you don't know the endurance they lasted through, and they must be the earliest production to be out of warranty now. If you have to bash a product we sell, do it in the installer forum, not on the open board. You know, if you can't say something nice ...
mark

I am not here to find out who sales the best item. I want honest opinion. Paul I apperciate you being blunt about the comdial phone. We are a very busy insurance office. Our phones log 4 to 6 hours of use a day during the 8 hour business day. I want to know the plan facts. Am I going to be happy with a system 5 years down the road when the warranty is out. Will I be paying one of you guys $80.00 an hour to fix it or will I be able to run my business.

[This message has been edited by jspeterson (edited September 01, 2004).]

Mark,
I am not trying to hurt your business. The man asked for opinions. I am giving my opinion.
And you are correct that we are seeing mainly the earliest releases of the 83xx series and DX-80 series phones. I truly hope that the product has improved.
However, it is a fact that in all Comdial display phones previous to the 83xx series, we see a bad display mpdule in roughly 2%-3% of the phones sent in to us for repair. This number includes the, now ancient, 66xx and 67xx series display sets. In the 83xx and DX-80 series sets that we have recieved, roughly half of the displays are blown.
I can only give my opinion on what I have seen. As far as the newer releases go, none of us can know how they will hold up until they have been out there for a while. From what I am hearing from many of our customers that are, at least for now, Comdial dealers, the problems have not been fixed.

jspeterson,
The honest opinion is that most all the new systems will do what you want, the best thing to do is compare prices and make sure you get good support.

jspeterson,

My perspective is a little different than most as I work for a manufacturer. As a manufacturer, we rely so much on the great resellers and techs to really make our products shine. The interconnects all have their favorites which is why they carry the product lines. The top 15 PBX makers will have the same 200 or so features so that can't be used as a differentiator. So then it comes down to company strength - that of the PBX maker & that of the interconnect. Check stock performance, ask for references specific to your industry, look at the Better Bus. Bur for information. The good will always outshine if you do your due dilligence.

i agree about the systems having alot of the same features and the importance of the company that sells & supports the equipment. I'd like to take a different tack here---what I do as a small business owner is to pick my customers. Sure, some of them pick me--and I go along with doing business with them---but in reality, when it's not a good fit---I walk away. JS--who is maintaining your present system, and why aren't you just going with them?? I maintain a trusted relationship with most of my customers, and am asked all sorts of questions, because they trust my opinions. I would really be suprised if one of my better customers would make me go into a bidding war with 3-5 other commpanies. I feel I can stop by or call up anytime and present a new idea, without having them look at me like I'm trying to steal their money from them. They are truthful with me, and have tried to the best of their ability to understand my business, and the technical terms of my business, so that we can communicate in a coherent manner. There are customers who willingly pay for everything to be done--and others who want to do things themselves so want to be trained. Either way, we both win.
I am very leery of prospective clients who just want the "basics" but end up talking of IP, DIDs, PRIs, Voice Mail, outgoing page notification, answering positions with cordless phones, external call forwarding --etc. Not that we can't provide those features-it's just that I get a feeling that the client is wanting something for nothing right off the bat. I also try to find out why he is leaving his present vendor. That question really gets me a lot of information ---so that I can make MY decision. So, JS--would you make a good customer???
"We are a very busy office.------" ALL of my customers, 100 circuits or 2 lines ALL think that their phones are important to them--and they are---but if the phones are important why are there only two options for you after 5 years of good service--1. Pay 80.00 to fix something or 2. Not be able to run your business. I would think that after paying for (after all it's not free)a five year Warranty --(probably that's really a service agreement)--80.00 to repair a phone(or a problem) is not really that bad. I mean, afer all, on one hand you say that your phones are going to get an extreme amount of use, but you don't expect anything to ever go wrong with them. Maybe that's not what you mean, but some of your statements would make me think twice about picking you for a customer. Please take this in the way it is intended; ---a relationship is two-way. You have to bring things to the table too--not just a demand for quality equipment but a realization that this will be sort of a marriage---you're going to be stuck with each other for 5-7 years or more. Hopefully you & your vendor pick each other by seeing something in the other that you really like. The vendor--not just the salesman, not just the phone system--but the whole package. Good Luck.

Why are we looking at a new vendor. We have had a phone system for 11 years now. Works great but the company that provided us with this system has changed its approach to working. They don't want a relationship but just the ability to find everything they can to bill you for things that can be addressed in a different manner. They are not in it for the two way relationship. If something goes wrong it is how can we weasel the most out of you. Not one to do business with. Expecially considering we have sent them a lot of referals over the years.

Now about us and if we are a good client. We are the type of client you want. We want to be self reliant and know how to use the product. We pay for things up front and you never have to worry about us leaving you hanging. We are in the business of doing what we say. We are one of the largest Insurance offices for our state for the company we represent. You don't get that way unless you know how to have good relationships.

When it comes to phone systems, many things have changed since we last looked 11 years ago. We also know that who you buy the phone from has as much to do as the product. But if you notice my orginal question, I want to know IS THIER A DIFFERENCE between the systems. Things go wrong and have to be fixed but I want to know is it a product that will be reliable, user friendly, able to keep pace with our business. I hear sales guys in this business talk about how it is similar to buying a car. It is, you have to test drive the systems and make sure they fit your needs. Sometimes though you can buy the Jaguar and it is always getting serviced or you can by the Lexus and drive it for a few years and enjoy the ride.

jspeterson,

We are local to you and sell Telrad for large systems and Avaya for the smaller offices, I'm not going to feed you any bull here the Telrad is a little more costly but once it is in place you will never out grow it and it will always be upgradeable for any future needs.They are rock solid and have no issues as they are beta tested for years before they release the products. They can also be migrated to IP very easily.

The Avaya Partner ACS is a good system also but doesn't have the features that the Telrad does but it is very user friendly and we have had very good luck with them and the customers really seem to like them. They will only grow to 15X40 which may or may not be to small for you.



[This message has been edited by dtmf (edited September 03, 2004).]

JS:
I wish you lived near me. You make alot of sense. And to answer your original question --there is as much difference in phone systems as in cars. You're in the market for a small phone system--a small car; not a sports car nor a pick-up truck. NEC, Inter-Tel & Comdial make pretty good cars, pick-ups & Semi-trucks. --but NEC & Inter-Tel are the Jaguars & Lexus and Comdial is the Chevrolet or Ford. Both Ford & Chevrolet make some good products but they aren't a Lexus. To compare the products is an unfair comparison. If you have the budget for a Lexus--don't even bother with the Ford.

The Comdial DX-80 will compare feature-wise & capacity-wise with the NEC & Inter-Tel but probably cost less; but the Comdial is not an NEC Elite IPK.

You now have 10 lines/18 phones...is it a possibility that you will double in the next five years. How much will it cost to expand your system of 10 lines 18 phones? The DX-80 can only go to 16 lines--but be quite OK(56 phones) on the station side. It will then have to be upgraded to the FXII--an unproven upgrade to be sure. The NEC & Inter-Tel have a much easier time of expanding. Not a cheap thing to do, for sure,--just easier IMHO. But find out how much to expand--how much for a phone--how much to add analog phone--how much to add a line card..etc, etc. Can the VM & phone system be programmed easily from a remote location. Can you yourself call in and change the main VM greeting--(business is closed because of a snow storm). Those are features. The Comdial can do all of that---easy. But it's not a Lexus.

The Comdial isn't a Telrad either.

JS,

DTMF and the guys have been around a long time. You don't make it in the business unless you excel at taking care of the customer. Although I am not familiar with the Telrad, other vendors and mods on the board speak highly of it. You should give them an oppurtunity to earn your business by letting them give you a proposal of a product. Most of us on this board are small companies. In order for us to compete with the big guys we have to have a good price for the product and excellent customer service. I am proud to say I know each one of my customers on a first name basis and we give them all a personlized service that lacks from other vendors. I believe you would have the same expierence with DTMF and most of the other vendors on this board.

How do I get ahold of DTMF

jspeterson you've got mail.
mark

Not looking to sell you anything!!!!!


You have to look around. Get your yellow pages out and find someone you trusted. That’s the most important thing. If you don’t have a good vendor you have nothing. Check his references, feel good about that salesman. You’re a smart guy you’ll know who’s good for your business. Then beat up on him Tell him you want 5 years service, see what happens maybe he’ll do it. Most guys will give up 2 years. They offer 1 year.

All of these systems do the same thing. Find a Phone that looks good to you, you have to like the style of the phone 1ST.

Right now is not a good time to buy a phone system. Why you might ask why. This VOIP Works good on all systems but it in it’s in the 1ST stages, now everyone will promise the world but there just trying to sell a system.

Find a dealer that has been around for a while, at least 10 years. Check his references. I would go for 20 years. Make sure they only sold that product for that long.

I’ve sold Telrad from day one. 23 years. That’s all I sell. It’s a great system. That’s what I think you should look at before you make a deal. If you need to talk about anything on this big decision please e-mail me. I Live in New York


[This message has been edited by tony3866 (edited September 09, 2004).]

I would go with Telrad too. It's one of the Best systems as far as a work horse goes. I would also go with dtmf, he can program that system in his sleep.

I agree with guys here and just wanted to pipe in again about the importance of SUPPORT for your new equipment...someone who isn't going to nickel and dime you for everything and also can provide legitimate REFERENCES...references you can call and speak with will give you a good feel about the company you are looking at going with (try to get at least 5 decent sized companies).