Ihave 2 X16's installed in verizons area. I have no caller id on either system. one is ver.1 and the other is ver.2. caller id is turned on. It works great on my voip line. is any one else having this problem? Verizon did activate caller id

Did you actually verify this ahead of the system? You can't take their word for it...

Amen, Brother Dave..... :thumb:

Verizon (A.K.A. GTE in SoCal?). I wouldn't bank on it being there. Have you listened on the lines with a butt set to see if the data burst is coming through after the first ring?

yes i hooked up a single line phone and caller id works. in the other system ver. 2 caller id has worked 4 times in the last day. i did not check it with my butt set.

Does your power source have a good 3rd prong ground?

You might want to leave a SLT prior to the system AND install a temporary system set there as well just to compare results. It is possible that you have two defective KSU's but unlikely.

Is this issue system wide or just 1 phone for the R2?

You are aware that CLID is set individually on R2 per phone?

I have both a R1 & R2 here that I'm "playing" with with no issues whatsoever (& CLID is slightly different up here in Bell canada territory so we found out).

Is there an alarm panel? I have found alarm modem block the CID at times.

no alarm panel and the problem seems to be system wide. and i assume that the ground is good never checked that. verizon is comming out to check rhe lines monday we will see what they say, but i allresdy know the answer ( not on our end)

I do know from experience that the lack of or poor ground will cause the CID to act flakey.

I once had a CID issue on an NEC DSX. Support was adamant that they wouldn't help me until after I guaranteed them that there was a secure ground. In that case, it turned out to be the KSU but it showed just how important a good ground is when troubleshooting CID.

Sorry, guys. I'm not buying the "grounding" thing. CID data is sent balanced across tip and ring in the original Bell 212 format at 1200 baud. If grounding was really an issue, then how come it works on a single-line device with absolutely no reference to ground? My suspicion is that there is some form of solid-state protection device on the line(s). These have the tendency to squelch the data burst.

Ed here at the house we just have unground outlets (built in 50's) except for one outlet I installed for my computer that I ran new wiring to with ground. Using the un-grounded CID was all over the place, worked sometimes, sometimes didn't I tried all kinds of resets different KSU the whole 9 yards. When I got an extention cord and plugged it into my grounded outlet, no more CID problems. Has to do with the KSU not the way CID is delivered. Can't tell you why just know what happened. I thought it was a system flaw for quite awhile, until I said well this shouldn't matter but it did.

Going to add it still doesn't make sense since it's 2 and a ground to a step down transformer. I just know it cleared the CID issue I was having with 3 different ksu's and several phones.

I know why Bill and ED, but do to my poor way to explain the answer i will give a summary later today but in the mean time some smarter or quicker
VOICE (a clue) can do a much better job.

OK TJ, waiting for your answer. Doesn't make sense to me unless some noise (unheard) is being induced into the data stream without the ground.

Normally on cid BOX with analog line we say the unit is working ok.(true).

When you factor in the the the Server,KSU or other device which does a demod of the FSK signal to present to the output of the display unit it is in the form of a DIGITAL format.

Modern KSU takes analog signal(co line/voice) and turns it into a Digital format and is so designed to use the ground as part of the equation.

In your case Bill, the system works just fine other the the hit/miss CID function.

Why ? You think maybe the FSK is being over looked, or the Frequency of the shifts is just not being read to display the proper format.

I guess it could be a product of pay me now/pay me later as the lost of the ground applied to the KSU.

I would look at it as of DTMF tone distorted producing wrong numbers.

Yes, as you last posted the FSK signals are being destroyed by a compromise of the circuit so designated to process the CID function because the lack of grounding.

Thanks for the explanation TJ.

verizon came out yesterday and the tech said that he had no way of checking the caller id with out a single line phone. but he assured me that the problem in in the ksu because they have fios to the house and there is never a problem there. i thought they were pots lined but i was wrong. i will go out to the dmarc and install ksu there and see what happens

Easier to temporarily install an SLT there for testing...

Do what justbill told you.

I think you'll find the CID signal is being sent outside of the normal window of 500 to 1500ms after the first ring. A CID box doesn't care but a number of phone systems do.

You might ask them to check. I'll guarantee you if you hooked up a POTS line from Bell the CID will work correctly. I've dealt with this exact same issue dozens of times with multiple phone systems (especially Tecom and older Vodavi). The most annoying part is when I show the CLEC that their caller ID isn't working but is on the Bell line, they deny having a problem. To them if a cheapo CID box works then they're good to go. Even using a Viking CID generator to prove to them the KSU is good doesn't sway them.

Here's a post from a couple of years ago when I first started dealing with these CLEC CID issues. Things haven't improved much since then. :bang:

https://www.sundance-communications.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/2/t/001901/p/1.html

Very interesting link, Bill. I'm convinced it'll help us in the future...thanks.

And since it's fios there's a very real possiblity that's exactly the problem. Do the ground thing first it will be easier if that's the problem.

No wonder you look so old for 30 Bill.

Before I forget, ask them to reprogram the channels as G.711 and see what happens. I'm not quite sure just exactly where the CID is generated using VOIP circuits but I've seen units programmed as G.728 or G.729 where CID doesn't work reliably.

took single line phone to d-marc comming into building and caller id works on all lines. i did notice that when i hooked the xblue the caller id showed that the call came in but did not display the name or #. it registered the info but did not display it, only on ver2 of the ksu. custoner said that line 1/2 are fiber and line 3 was copper. any suggestions?

What have you found with the previous suggestions?

The data treatment can be critical and CID is a data signal. As a comparison, Vodai requires G.711 if a fax is to be used with their RSGM. .

Well xblue system will not work on this fios network. Itried 2 new xblue ksu and no luck. tried an atlas system and worked fine. i also tryed to get verizon to reprogram for g.711 but the tesh had no clue what i was talking about. So I will install an ivx c clas system. thanks for your input

Once again reaffirming my opinion of Verizon. :bang:

It is a "known problem" with the X16, confirmed this with x-blue a couple of years ago. I thought they had licked that problem though.

Maybe you have an older KSU???

Call Ernie Meadows from X-blue to see if they can advance you a newer KSU.

I believe that the problem exists on Verizon lines based on the Central Office equipment used in your area. In other words, it may work with Verizon at certain Central Offices.
The predominant carrier where I am is Cablevision, so I have not seen this problem recently.

Bottom line is if you hook up a caller id unit and all works, it is an x-blue problem, not a carrier problem.

Walter

Most stand alone CID units will work even if the CID timing is off or there are embedded nulls in the data stream. MANY phone systems will not.

I've been down this road a number of times and forced the carrier to bring their equipment within BellCore specs.

--Bill.

Know this is an old post but thought Id share the experience I just had with CID on an X16.Customer reported that CID was sparodic to non existent after a year of working fine.Did the usual, test calls on each trunk, CID was ok from the phone co(Cox Cable), rebooted system, etc,etc,etc.Finally talked to an engineer and explained my problem. His first question was "Is system plugged into a surge protector" I said yes as well as the LEC.He told me to plug directly into wall.I was a bit skeptical but tried it and he was correct.CID worked fine after that.Dont think Ill forget this one.

Weird. The only time I ever had trouble with CID I had to reinitialize the x16 KSU to restore it.

Yeh, I tried the reset several times, no good. Theres only one bit in programming which turns CID on or off for each ext. Telco was sending info so I was ready to try anything.Have to admit I was a bit skeptical when engineer told me that. This wasnt an XBlue engineer by the way, he was with Telco Depot where the system was purchased and it was out of warranty.Another thing that occured to me afterwards, this was a 100+ year old house, may not have even had a 3rd wire ground although the outlets were 3 prong.