Installed these at a school a couple of months ago. The electrician finally showed up to install the door release yesterday.
I have 2 problems:
1-Door phone is setup as Vad60 recommended to ring a non existing extension...in this case 26 & the other phones are assigned Answer DN's. The 3 digital sets work fine but the Cordless (on an ATA)will not ring. I know that I can't put an Answer DN on that so the only way that I see is to have one of the sets forward their calls to it. Then it will ring & they can answer. It's a work around but it's the only way that I can think of. The secretary is peeved as it's "One more thing to do when I leave at noon". Any other brain storms out there?
2-The biggest problem is that once answered by the cordless, they cannot make the door release when pressing 6. I even tried with "Long Tones"...no way.
The main reason why they took this system was to give the "On Duty Teacher" the ability to open the door from whereever they were in the school. I'm sure I read that this was supposed to work from a cordless, so what am I missing? :shrug:
Dave
Hi Dave,
Long time no talk. I don't think that answer DN is going to ring on SL Cordless telephone simpley cause it is not Icm. or Trunk call. What you've read was about Norstar Cordless T7406 telphone. It has programmable buttons that can be assign as Answer DN. Why don't you assign Cordless telephone instead of Ext.26 as your Door phone Ext. and make everybody to have Cordless as an Answer DN Ext. Make sure that Cordless doesn't have MB and is not forwarded to VM. If you would tell me at the beginning that you are going to have SL Cordless I would know better what to suggest. Try that scenario and find out or this is working for you. I belive that once Cordless starts to ring you would be able to answer and hit 6 to open.
Good luck
Door phone should point to SLT cordless and ANS DN for the cordless on the digital sets. Make sure your dip switches in the controller are set correctly for digit 6. See if you can adjust the tone burst time from the cordless.
The SLT cordless in combination with the ATA should pass tones.
Are you sure the cordless is doing it? Hook your buttset up in between the ATA and the cordless base so you can monitor the tones.
No voicemail to worry about....small school that needed the security aspect of this due to the number of weirdos out there nowadays.
I'll stop there today and change the target as you both suggest...that will at least make the scretary happy.
I doubt that that will let the C/L buzz them in though, but we'll see. I tried yesterday to hold down the 6 on the C/L to give it time to send a T/T signal but to no avail, even with my but set connected to the ATA it wouldn't work even with Long Tones.
The dip switches are set correct as the other phones have no problems.
I'll let you know.
Dave
UPDATE....
Changing the target DN did the trick for the ringing, but I still can't get the door release to operate from the cordless.
Twisted Pair....Sorry, our posts must have crossed so I didn't see it B/4 leaving this am. No, I haven't tried that, but the last time I was there I used the buttset in lieu of the C/L, & it still wouldn't work. Even changed the ATA...still no go.
I'll most likely be in the area next week, so I'll try your suggestion for the fun of it.
I know they can't afford a T7406 C/L, but maybe if I can find a working M7410.....
Dave
An afterthought for Twisted Pair....
I know it's emitting tones as I could hear the tone going throught the speaker of the door phone. I could have held the 6 for an hour and it still didn't engage the release.
Dave
The DOC is installed and it works fine from a Nortel station set?
Pushing the soft touch "open" button or using the "6" button from a Nortel phone?
Yes Sir.....it's just the cordless...
Dave
Hmmm.....I have used the Nortel door phone but never with an ATA.
I have used an aftermarket door intercom/release unit (on a spare trunk port) with an ATA and cordless which works fine. That's how I know the ATA will pass tones.
You don't suppose Nortel has something in there that won't allow an ATA to pass tones internally? The strange part is that you can hear the tone through the door speaker, so I would assume the unit would also hear this and pass it to the DOC.
Although I have never done it, I was told by Nortel you can also call in externally and route your call to the door phone to release the strike as well. I am wondering how this is accomplished because I don't think it's much different from what you are doing.
If you have access to a 'digit grabber' you can connect it to the output side of the ATA and see if is sending out the correct tones for the digits pressed.
Dave have you tried a different analog phone (butt set). Just to determine if the problem is with the ATA or the cordless.
What I originally installed was an ATA-AC, then with this problem, I changed it to an ATA2, just in case. I also connecvted by bttset in lieu of the C/L...same results.
I've haven't been back yet on site to check with the buttset in line with the C/L...will do that this week & also swap out the c/l for a 2500 set.
Don't have a digit grabber, but have been thinking of getting one...so maybe.
However, I doubt that is the problem, as I can dial with my buttset and the c/l just fine in other operations.
Has anyone ever tried this or am I the 1st to try & use an anolgue phone for the door opener?
Dave
MY BAD---The 'output' side of the ATA in this instance would be the digital port jack---a 'digit grabber' would do you no good there :bang:BTW---is this a Norstar doorphone?
Yes it is, both the door phone & the controller.
Dave
Dave,
Have you try to communicate with VM w/that SL? Remember old TIE systems? Some of them didn't have true DTMF and couldn't comminicate w/Voice Mail systems. Is this some $10 phone? from 99c shop.
Vad you have to read the posts! He's already told us no V/M and he has tried his buttset in lieu of the cordless so it's not the cordless.
He can hear tones coming out of the door speaker when he pushes the "9" on his buttset wired through the ATA. It's almost like the door phone doesn't like the tone it's getting from the ATA. He's even tried another ATA.
Another test; unplug the ATA and using the exact same cord, plug in a digital set and try it to make sure the port is working okay.
And; call into the system from your cell phone, answer it from a station set and transfer the call to the door phone DN. Now try pushing "6" from your cell phone to see if you can release the door. If you can't, it would appear that Nortel door phones only like digital station tones.
TP,
I meant calling into somebodies VM not internal.
Today's Update....
Vad60....Called into another client's VM with the CordLess and Xfer's around within no problem.
Twisted Pair....Tried the buttset in line & like B/4, I can hear the tones, but that's it. Swapped out the c/l for a 2500...no go. Tried it like you said with the same cord attached to a digital set, and no problem. The only thing I couldn't do, was call in with my cell & Xfer. No lines are assigned to that ext as per the instructions. Because they only have the one line and it was kind of busy this am, I didn't bother assigning the line & trying. I might stop in tomorrow pm after another job. The secretary will be gone and I'll play some more.
It appears though that it'll only take the tones from a digital set. Guess I'll have to find a used 7410 or 7406 for them.
Heard today from the board's electrian that another school is thinking about this so I'd really like to find a workable solution & stay within budgets.
Dave
I have always had the door phone ring a HG dn, put desired ringing sets as members.
If im not mistaken the door phone programs like a 7208, that being said, digital sets do not produce DTMF on icm calls. Which indirectly means that the door switch is looking for something other than DTMF tones to activate.
You might try using a third party solution from Viking.
"digital sets do not produce DTMF on icm calls"
That's what I was sort of wondering myself but on a 7208 phone there isn't a soft touch "open" button so technically you are pushing the 6 and sending a tone.
Plus, Dave has told us that he can hear a tone coming from the door phone speaker as long as he holds the button down on his buttset.
I asked a Nortel guru here in my area about it and he thinks it has something to do with offsite restrictions. He says an ATA, even though connected to a station port, acts like a trunk call. It's the same as calling in from offsite and accessing the door. That's why I suggested the cell phone transfer and it should work even without line appearances providing at least one intercom is assigned to the door phone.
On the topic of HG or ringing multiple DN's, I normally use a third party solution as well but that's the advantage to using a Nortel unit. The Nortel unit can page a "chime" sound to multiple phones.
Can hear the tones, not only from my buttset, but also any analogue set connected to the ATA again for as long as I hold the 6 button.
rustynails....have you got a link to Viking for me. I have to find a solution.
Dave
A third party solution will connect to a trunk port so you must have another line-in available on the phone system.
I have used the
Viking which makes different grades of door speakers (vandal resistance). I have also used the
Viscount and the
TeleDoorBell . The Viscount and TeleDoorBell are cheaper, but not as vandal proof.
Using a 3x8 system & only 1 line so trunks are no problem. Thanks Twisted Pair for the info, I'll check them out.
Dave
Now that this scenario has moved to using an available trunk--I have several customer sites that use a trunk port for connection to a doorbox. This link will take you to the Viking doorbox page--https://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/search_alpha.php?mykeyword=doorbox
Simply program the phones-including the cordless-to 'appear & ring' or 'ring only' for that line port that the unit connects to. No more complaints from the nice lady. :rolleyes:
Plus, Dave has told us that he can hear a tone coming from the door phone speaker as long as he holds the button down on his buttset.
What about from a digital set to the door phone. That was my point; if the digital set can acitvate the switch by pressing 6, then it must be something other than DTMF that is making it work.
DAve I'd like you to try something.
From C/L call the door phone DN, then try to release the door latch.
Another solution I've used is the external page relay instead of the controller.
Bobcomm....Thanks for the link. I'll take that route if I can't get Nortel to do it to it...
Rustynails....Yes been there, tried that and digital set work fine. Therefore I'm coming to the same conclusion.
Marv....I can't honestly say whether or not I tried calling the DN from the C/L. I'll try that tomorrow if time permits, if not, it won't be until Friday as I might go to the telephone fair in Mtl on Thursday. Need to see one of my suppliers anyway to shove a few "DOR" sets down his throat (Dead On Receipt).
I like your idea of using the paging port. Can't see why that wouldn't work. Would I be able to bypass the DOC completely (& eventually remove it) or would you suggest running this in parallel with the DOC?
Dave
By any chance have you tried setting the doc to some other digit such as 0 or * or #? Its a far off idea but it could be that something weird would work on the s/l tones.
Have you tried setting the called phone to a real extension, not a non-existent one, and see if that made any difference?
A Viking doorbox (W-1000, W-2000, W-3000) and a Viking RC2A on a CO port would work just fine. As stated above, you would program it to ring or appear and ring on what phones you want and the RC2A gives you a contact closure for the door strike.
The cost new is similar or less to the Norstar doorbox and DOC. The one advantage to the Norstar is a programmable doorbox tone that is not like a line ring.
If you use just the Viking doorbox you can use the paging port for a contact closure but you have to hang up and hit a paging button. I would caution you not to use the full door opening power through the paging contact, it is not meant for that.
When I did this in the past, I would put the door opening current through the arms of a Radio Shack 12 Volt DC relay and then send one leg of the 12 volts through the paging contacts to pull the relay down.
I can email you a diagram if needed, just PM me.
I just put in two new door boxes and two DOCs last night. One DOC worked perfectly and blinked and the other one hooked to the same power supply just came on as a dim red, no blinking, no operating. I hate bad out of the box. And, hitting the reset button did nothing to make it work, nor did taking the power off multiple times.
For this much money, you would think they would test them and they were made in Canada, not asia.
Dave if you look in the doorphone manual, the proceedure to use the page relay is in there. NO DOC is required, but you also can't be using external paging on the system.
UPDATE & CONCLUSION Marv, I didn't get your last post until tonight, but in any event, the problem is solved !!!!! :toast: Using the Ext Page relay contact did the trick, but with a twist.
I tried using the same pair going to the release using one side to power and the other from the relay contact. As soon as I connected I'd still get 24 vac+/-, thus setting off the release.
I narrowed down the problem to an electrical issue and eventually tried going from the relay contact to the release using a spare lead in the 4 pair directly to the Opener. At the Door Opener, I then attached that spare lead with the other side of the pair from the DOC (for the release).
In theory I should have been able to do this connection at the DOC, but I seemed to be getting about 10 vac feedback at that point.
The teachers probably won't be crazy about using the feature code, but....it's working, I'm smiling & we all have a workable solution.
Many thanks to all that helped out with this one...Telemarv, Twisted Pair, Vad60, etc....
Marv, the next time I'm in the Ottawa region, I'll be stopping in with a bottle of Canadian Club for you for all your help. Might go to the Highland Games in Almonte, we haven't decided if we're competing this year or not. I'm definately going to Maxville, even if the band doesn't compete.
Dave
Here's an easier way that I've done before;
Using the relay set-up like you have now, I've hooked it up to the "aux ringer contact" instead of "paging contact." In programming, turn off the aux ringer for all "lines" and go in and turn on the ringer for the DN of the door phone only.
Now when you intercom the door DN, it will release the strike. If the door phone initiates the call, they simply "end" after talking and go back off-hook and enter the two digit DN to release.
Obviously you will have to assign a line pool so the cordless can get an outside line by dialing "9."
All station phones can release the same way, by intercom.
Thanks for the tip. I'll use that if I hear complaints about the present setup. I'll be stopping in again anyways in awhile just to "check in".
That would be easier for the cordless extension to release.
Dave
Glad to help.
Bring Scotch!
Will Do....any preference?
Dave
Twisted Pair....
Was in that town for something else today, so I swung around to the school to try your suggestion for the heck of it as it would be easier for these highly educated educators to open the door.
All I'd get at the door was a short burst for the release...a second, two at the very most.
Dave
The door phone auto-answers, so the Aux relay will only pulse briefly and release
Glenlevitt single malt. It's the only thing that should be drunk at the games.
:toast:
I always install my own strikes and power supplies so I guess I should go into a little more detail here. I use timer relays on the strikes so a pulse will trip the time delay relay and hold it for 5 to 10 seconds.
I believe a timer relay should always be used regardless of the release method, whether it be paging contact, ringer, or a simple button, it should be a consistent time. If you use the paging method and accidentally don't hang the phone up, the strike will stay engaged and depending on the duty cycle of the strike, it could burn out.
Page port has a programable disconnect timer. So even if by accident it's left off hook it will release.