Most of the problems I ran into with VOIP was in regards to lack of bandwidth. People using it through a cable modem and using the same connection for the office network. In installs where it was hooked up to a dedicated connection (With sufficient bandwidth) or through a router that prioritized the VOIP traffic there wasn't near as many problems.
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The last time I entered a discussion like this, I got beat up by shovels, and almost run over by a backhoe. But I did learn something very important: What may be good for some, doesn't always mean that it's best for all.
There's a famous German toast: "Jeder sieht ein Stückchen Welt, gemeinsam sehen wir die ganze. Prost!!"
(Each of us sees a part of the world; together we see all of it. Cheers!) :toast:
VOIP is great for some people if properly installed and implemented. But then on the other hand they are some customers that don't need it, don't want it and should not have it.
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VOIP is here to stay. There are several systems out there that are pure IP. Some work well others don't.
As for what Anthonyh says. There are a lot of problems with people that say( I know how to plug in a phone and I know how to plug in a computer. Therfore I know how to make VOIP work.)
This is not the case. There are many more things to take into consideration about VOIP solutions and the way they are implemented.
Do you need the ability of VOIP? How big is your organization and do they all need the same ability to travel? Exactly what features of VOIP do I need?
These are just a few questions to ask yourself before purchasing a full VOIP Solution. Most manufactures today have a combined solution VOIP and traditional. Of course all the VOIP providers are going to bash traditional phone systems. And all Traditional phone system people are going to bash VOIP.
Fact is both have positives and both have negatives.
Most VOIP Solutions use a Hard drive in some way to manage there devices. Some PBX systems use Hard drives to run there systems. Expecially Voicemail Systems. There is no good or bad. There is only what you need now and what you need in the future. Then will the system you are going to purchase cover that. :read:
I noticed the same on Saturday. I stopped into BOFA to deposit some checks and noticed the new Cisco Equipment. I asked what they thought of it, the response "They are horrible" they explained similar issues as what RFB mentioned. They also had various times in which they could not grab a CO line for the life of them.
Given I'm 60% IT guy, 40% Telephone guy, I ALWAYS push a digital or analog system over a straight VOIP system.
I had a proposal about two weeks ago and they companies IT guy looks at my bid and says "Why are you installing 66 Blocks? Everyone is now going to patch panels for telephones" I said "Ohh really who is everyone" Him "Well most places it makes it easier for the IT manager to administer the phone system" My response "So what happens when you plug a CO port into a digital Station or into your data switch? What effect is the ring voltage going to play onto those items" Him "Well how should I know? Me "I'll tell ya one thing, if I ever come in for a service call on a down system, and I find a CO line is plugged in somewhere it should not be, your warranty goes out the window REAL Quick" He quickly shut up and let me do my sales proposal.
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Originally posted by RATHER BE FISHING: I was in a Bank Of America branch today doing business. Noticed they had a new Cisco IP system instead of the old familiar Norstar system. While sitting there I had my banker try to call someone in California. She picked up her handset and somehow picked up an incoming call. She's not the receptionist. Says it happens all the time. I talked to a rep in California. The popping and clicking on the call was incredible. Says it's been that way since the install. We put the call on hold and promptly lost it. Everyone in the office hates the system. I can give you the contact info for two former Cisco resellers that had to reset their systems EVERY night. Again I have sold them and I have pulled them out. I like VoIP as transport between sites and teleworkers but inside to the desktop still sucks. We pulled another hosted IP system as the sellers could never make it work.
Bus barn in Kleburg is still waiting for thier "PAging Server" And still using the old Panasonic System for internal traffic. If it can waste money, Gov agencies love it.
Ok, I feel the urge to hop on this "Flame War Bandwagon". My two cents worth: VOIP is an absolutely awesome solution to certain situations. Example would be the off-site satelite sales office or person, the branch to branch communications necessary to conduct business in some of todays high traffic industries and stuff like that. For those particular situations you can't really bash VOIP at all. <font size=+2>BUT</font> for inside an office that can still use copper to conduct its business outside its office, VOIP flat out sucks in comparison to reliability and uptime of conventional phone systems. A hybrid system is a very good idea for applications that need to fill both of the above mentioned situations as you get the reliability of a conventional system with the option to have low cost communications to distant offices and people. In spite of Milestones pro-VOIP rant I still cannot see a need for implimenting a VOIP system inside of a small office except for the bragging rights and techie toys. When you eventually grow up you will want a reliable system and not something to play with. I am an IT person as well as a phone tech and I make the above statements with experience on both sides of the fence. We do phone system trouble calls at several national chain stores and banks through the national contractors (flame war of another post, not going there) and I have had MANY MANY calls form the nationals with emergency calls to these chains implimenting VOIP inside the building and they always want you there "now or sooner if you can make it". All this simply because these systems are not being used in the best situations for them, they are out of their league trying to keep up with the conventional systems reliability specs. Usually it is something simple like resetting the CISCO router or something of that nature, never anything too serious but it costs them my emergency rates and down time at their location and for what? Just to be the first kid on the block with the newest power ranger doll or equivalent toy? Get real. At one location they took out an old Toshiba Srata VI system. That was an old ugly phone system, didn't look as purdy as the CISCO VOIP phones do at all. But tell you what, I was only there twice in three years for service calls on the Toshiba. They put in the CISCO system and all of a sudden I am there 4 times in less than 4 weeks? Give me a break! Either paging goes out, someones phone won't register, always something. Anyhow, that is only my personal opinion and experiences. I work for an hourly rate and will fix whatever you put in. You want to install someting that goes down a lot just call, I love to take your money! (Sorry for the really long post people, I just felt motivated.)
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming and panicking like the passengers in his car.
Originally posted by anthonyh: From a carrier point of view...
I see a lot more companies going to a least some form of a VOIP solution. I also see a LOT more trouble tickets coming in from customers using VOIP. 90 % of the time the out come is CPE, the resolution is "Customer rebooted their router, and gateway and switch" Or Customers router was misconfigured.
I do not have an issue with VOIP, I have an issue with under qualified people who have never seen a phone room and take a two week certification class and are now so called techs installing systems, and IT managers who have no Idea of how a PRI works or even the basics of telecom for that matter who will argue with you for hours over something they have absolutely no understanding of.
I think if all the IT guys out their with the “I know everything†complex would swallow their pride and listen to some of us dumb old phone guys they may actually learn something. Incidentally from the IT guys I have come in contact with, the ones who seem to be able to get their VOIP system to work properly all started off as phone guys
Yeah babee!! That is one of my major pet peeves, all of a suuden the IT guy is also the phone guy.
In my experience when you design and integrate a network correctly you do not have any issues adding VoIP the downside is many times we are dealing with the idiot that that built a problematic network and is now frantically justifying his position in the company.
The true test of any network is to run a VoIP solution over it because in a heartbeat you will find out just how many problems and bottlenecks you have.
I am not going to get into which IP solution is better than others but we have been selling and installing VoIP systems for 4 years, there is definitley a learning curve and unfortunately we have to stay on the "bleeding edge" to provide our cutomers "cutting edge" we have quite a few systems out there and they are equally as reliable as legacy systems and offer a lot more flexibilty, and they are ready for prime time and they are here to stay-get your pocket protector out and come and play.
I have had out my popcket protector for some time...having COME from the IT side and paid my dues on the telephone side. From a logical side single wire VOIP makes no sense. People seem to forget that IP products like NIC cards, switches mostly are not made to the rugged specs of a traditional/hybrid telco system. Quickest way to bring dowm an internal VOIP system...just have one NIC spaz out. You'll be out there with a packet sniffer to figure it out. VOIP does work...unfortunately it is seldom if ever worth the amount of work it takes to make it work reliably and well. VOIP has a great place in networking systems, trunking to an extent ( I am still looking at this in trial) and remote workers. Internally, esp if you have traditional voice cable, it's a pig in a poke. Most VOIP systems that work well usually have the switch integrated, are seperated from the network and are incredibly small compared to most systems I normally deal with. Large call centers, forget it...do the math sometime and you will see to get GOOD voice quality you will sacrifice 100-120 of bandwidth..and SIP is a bandwidth hog. BTW, for thos that know on a PRI GOOD voice quality is 64k per call...that VOIP (BETTER) phone is costing you double than traditional.
