atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services T1's, CSU's and DSU's Question about PRI's on a DMS

I hope this is a simple question. We have a customer who is in the process of switching their PRI account from a CLEC to Verizon. They feel that they will receive better service this way. I tried to explain to them that this probably won't make a difference, but their mind is set.

One requirement is that if the PRI goes down for any reason, they want the DID that represents their main number to quickly be able to be pointed to a cell or pots line number. Sounds pretty simple to me. Their current CLEC along with many others do this all the time. Verizon is telling the customer that they will need to make their main number into a POTS or Centrex line and then have it set with busy forwarding to the DID's on the PRI. This is because a non-PRI number can't simply hunt to a DID on the PRI for the second call. This also means that when subsequent calls come into the main number and they "hunt" over to the PRI, they will be charged for a local message unit (9.6 cents per hunted call). The customer's not buying this for one second, nor am I.

Their current CLEC is using a DMS500; Verizon is using a DMS100. I think that this is an issue with policy, not with the capacities of the serving switch. Can anybody give me a buzz word to use to explain to Verizon what needs to be done to temporarily point a DID to another destination in a DMS? Thanks!

I'm glad I don't have to deal with Verizon bozos on a normal basis. At&t does this with the same DMS switches. WE just request an emergency forward of the lead DID number to a cell or POTS line. IT's done within a acouple of minutes. I do find it faster and easier to deal with most CLECs though. Good luck getting them to see the light....but hey you got the network.

Ed, I can not speak for verizon, but unless the customer is paying for an additional service like automatic call redirect many carriers will do it the way you mentioned, with one exception..they will remove the did and build it as a pots line at the time the fowarding is needed. You basically remove the did from the trunk group and build it on some spare office equipment and then just add a remote cfr to it until the servcie is restored.

PM sent

There is a way for the ilec to forward a DID but they generally do not because they have to get into translation tables in the DMS to forward a DID on a PRI. Move it to extra points on the DMS and then forward it. If you can find a carrier that has a VOIP solution they generally have a web access to allow the customer to forward a line even on a PRI from anywhere on the internet.

As for the build a pots line and forward it to a DID on the PRI is a good solution. Inside the DMS they would setup additional forwarding paths for the line. If it ever goes down and they have remote call forwarding on the pots line they may call the RCF number and forward the line from anywhere.

I worked for a CLEC as a 5ESS tech. We used to do this all the time. That was one way we were able to stay ahead of AT&T. It is a lot easier to work with a CLEC mostly becuase they want the business and will do just about everything they can to make a customer happy. Time Warner seems to do this as well here in Tx.

Same here. We most often assign a route index to the individual/POTS line, directing the inbound calls straight to the PRI (in leu of using call forwarding).

I explored this with Verizon before. The reason or excuse was that they do Analog service and Digital service from different switchs in the same CO. So unlike a CLEC with one serving switch that can route internally, Verizon has to trunk the call over and choose not to manage the additional headachs that will bring. In NYC with 3 or more switchs in a CO I had seen new additional T-1s installed and ripped out by Verizon during turn-up because they could not be added to the same trunk-group for the customer. They were ordered and provisioned from the wrong switch by VZ.

I smell what you are cooking and that makes sense. We have the same thing here with multiple switches, of several different manufacturers located in the same CO. Why not?

It's absolutely correct that Verizon chooses to not offer this. Anybody with half a brain knows that you can make just about anything happen within today's digital CO switches. Getting everyone to sing from the same sheet of music is too difficult, so they take the path of least resistance by either saying NO or by passing the buck back to the system vendor.

As it turns out, the customer ended up getting them to set their main number up with a virtual assignment that's forwarded to the PRI in the DMS. I think that I heard them mention something about their having done this in a nearby 5ESS and trunking it over. Anyway, they managed to do it, but it will cost the customer an extra $30.00 per month (the cost of a real 1MB line). They are willing to pay for it in exchange for the peace of mind. I can't blame the customer.

The inital phase of the cutover (test/verify the pipe) failed. Verizon claimed that it was tested and complete on their end. My technician found that their cut down on the block was off by 1/2 pair. Once he fixed this and informed the Verizon turn-up coordinator (who swore that she participated in the circuit's testing), they started taking things a little more seriously. They lie so much. There is NO way this circuit could have possibly worked, yet "there musta been sumpin' wrong in da PBX".

So far, the cut was a success and we are into 48 hours without their circuit dropping. With the CLEC they were using before, it dropped several times per day. Even though we know that it was a last-mile issue, Verizon wasn't jumping through hoops to do anything. Looks like they got what they wanted; they won a customer back, hook or crook.

As always, thank you all for your suggestions and feedback. I don't like to come around looking for answers, but when I need them, I know where to go!

All I care about is that the customer is satisfied with the outcome.

As for having the circuit off by 1/2 pair.

With todays NIU's (Smartjacks) Most of them will test good as long a 1/2 the pair is connected. I have even had a smartjack test good with only one out of the 2 pairs working. Hooked up a channelbank to the circuit and only 12 out of the 24 channels were working. Howevere it did loop and test good with several differnt patterns. The 2B1Q protocol covers a lot of problems on a t1. The only way to truely test a circuit anymore is to put a test set on the end past the demarc and run for about 2 hrs.