atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums VOIP Phones & IP PBX VoIP & Cloud Phones, Hosted PBX, General IP Phones Hosted VoIP PBX Services

This seems like a very knowledgeable board. I was surprised to find my search of "hosted" to only find 5 links none of which referred to hosted voip services. My question is this.

Several market studies indicate this service will replace VoIP CPE (premised) equipment in the next year or so. That said, what have you found the advantages and disadvantages are and how many installations have you seen.

This is an important question to me because our business has made the leap start moving in this direction. Your thoughts and comment are genuinely appreciated. Thanks.


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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, Features Galore"

My personal feeling is that in most cases this architecture is not the future, although I'm sure there is a niche market where it makes sense. I realize there are lots of advertising dollars being spent that hype this up but I've yet to see a real world installation that could stand up beside a PBX or even a key system for that matter. Why would you send in house traffic offsite? Plus the feature set lacks. Get a feature set matrix & stack it up agaist a any PBX that's out there.

[This message has been edited by aweaver (edited June 22, 2005).]

Thanks for your response, much appreciated!

"Why would you send in house traffic offsite?"

I think the main reason is cost savings.

"Plus the feature set lacks. Get a feature set matrix & stack it up agaist a any PBX that's out there."

OK

Unified Messaging
Call Recording
Faxing in and out
Presence (see what status everyone is in)
Dialtone
Microsoft Outlook with 100 megs of space
Basic ACD
DID
find me/follow me
Remote use (its a gui so you can use it anywhere you have internet with any phone)
text to speech (read your e-mails to you and forward faxes to other fax machines by dialing into the TUI)
Listen (to VM while its being left)
AA, hold, transfer, page, etc. and all "PBX Features" (except park which bugs me)

I don’t know many key systems (or PBX’s for that matter) that can do all that. If you do, I am seriously interested.

Basicly we are looking at setting up all end users with that for about $45-50/month. LD is $.03/min. Shoot even regular dialtone is like $60/month then you still have to buy a PBX. Something with those kind of features and IP is gonna be at least $1000-$1500 per phone. Right?

Don’t get me wrong they still need to buy/lease a SIP phone (Polycom's cheapest speaker phone will sell to end users for around $200) but I am thinking that for most 5-50 person companies it would be a cost/features advantage. We’ve tried to crunch the numbers pretty hard. If I am missing something I could really use some help because we are going to be prospecting dealers sometime soon and I want to make sure we have our ducks in a row because most of our prospects will be phone guys like you. (Not computer guys like Cisco goes for).

Thanks aweaver. Please let me know what you think, I hold your opinion with high regard.




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[URL=https://www.itel-ip.com

]www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

Avaya, Comdial, Panasonic, Toshiba, Nortel. I can't think of a system that doesn't offer those features quite frankly. Dialtone is a feature?

The cheap phone you refer to does not give you the "presence" as you call it feature. So I think once you add up the price of IP phones compared to Hybrid IP phone system, I think you will find Hybrid to be cheaper. More reliable.

If I could sell someone a $1500 phone, WOW, I would be able to retire early!



[This message has been edited by OhioTelecom (edited June 22, 2005).]

Hosted IP centric companies pedalling "old school" centrex apps are a joke at this point. All are startups(less than 5 years in service). Would you trust your company's telephony to a company without a track record? Alot of the old timers are struggling. NT,AV, etc. These industry leaders are barely making it let alone someone unknown with a soft switch in a rented colocated space. The jury is still out. I have lost 1 deal in the last 12 months to a rent-a-voip phone outfit. A 4 phone realty office startup that I couldn't write a lease on because it was a new biz with no credit. I like my odds.

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Business Phone Systems

Since when has Polycom been considered a "cheap phone"? I am willing to bet you have installed plenty of Polycom manufactured phones.

Sure all the "regular" manufacturers you mention CAN do these things. If you attach a bunch of DIFFERENT systems to them. Then you are looking at a much more expensive system.

I will do a cost comparison vs your "hybrid" or "converged" PBX's any day and win 9 out of 10 times and you still would'nt offer all of those features.

My mention of $1000-$1500 per phone considers ALL costs considered but I assumed you would be savvy enough to realize that.

Presence is included in the GUI. I would like to see you take a TDM phone and move it without charging the customer. Let alone let them take it and use it from home.

Clearly you are offended by my post and in no way was I trying to attack. Not sure where your aggression resides from. I was just trying to get some insight from what I considered to be decent, knowledgeable industry veterans.

My apologies if you considered my post a threat.

Lastly, we are about to sign someone up in Columbus, OH so perhaps we will be running into each other.

Good Luck to you.


[This message has been edited by bbarnes (edited June 22, 2005).]

while I'am sure you mean well, but those of us who have to install and make something work because a customer was told it would work and it doesn't or because a company sales a system that will do a bunch of features and then they need patchs, upgrades, so on and so forth. then you can understand why some people get tired of hearing the same sort of song and dance. I have been hearing that voip is the way go, in truth it has a long way to go. all my customers want proven working system that will last and grown with them. voip will be the way to go someday, but intil they all are using the same standards, as far as my customers are concerned they are not willimg to make that gamble.

sorry about the post

[This message has been edited by yzark40 (edited June 22, 2005).]

Apology not neccessarry but well taken. I can actually relate. I have sold systems before that were "supposed" to do things promised by manufacturers and in the real world they just didnt go as planned. When that happens guess who takes the call.

Oh how I dred those days. This is one of the main reasons I decided to join forces with where I am at today. I did quite a bit of reasearch beofre taking the leap because of the reasons you listed above. They mirror both of our past experiences. Our motto is "a lot of people blow hot air but we actully do what we say we can." Sometimes our installs can get labor intensive but at the end of the day everything works as promised. The nice thing about a hosted solution is that all of that work has already been achived so its just a matter of expaning our exisiting install. So far this has been very nice. Since its not a perfect world, I know tougher days are ahead but as long as I stay in the 5-50 per site space things should go smoohtly.

Thanks for your note!

So I assume the consensus here is that hosted is the enemy?

All I ask is that you be open minded about this becuase statistics show that it will be a very big part of our dailey lives in days to come.

Any other thoughts?

Are you using a point to point t-1 between your equipment and the customer to link to their phones? I can't imagine trying to get decent voice quality on a link I didn't have direct control over the QOS in the routers. Btw, I can see some of the points the other installers are making. This type of solution currently doesn't appear to scale well with many businesses due to the need for so many managed switches to keep network segments from killing the voice quality. Remember this is just how it appears to me from the problems I've had installing hybrid pbx/ip and pure ip systems.

Actually most major markets have seen IP telephony service providers come and go. We have 2 disappear overnight. Not a great comfort to the enduser. Promises of the great future of hosted services is a guess at best. Good luck anyway.

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Business Phone Systems

I've read all of this through twice and I think if you had lead off your initial post with "Hay guys, I'm jumping into hosted VOIP and here's how it is going for me" the responses would have been different. It is almost like you had the answers to your questions before you asked them. I would like to know more about it because the CLECs are starting to show up with this stuff in my area. The only hosted system I have been up against so far cost $5100.00 for the customer premiss equipment. The vendor also priced out an Avaya ACS for $5,100.00 as well so that's my only experience with this (8 phones and voice mail). Many of us have been the first ones out the door with leading edge stuff and have learned the hard way to let someone else go out the door first next time. Maybe you can keep us all up to speed on this as you progress. I assume you are only selling hosted systems now.

I have a stupid stupid question bbarnes...if you already know all the answers why are you asking the questions? Is this some new adverstisement technique? I have YET to see an all IP system outperform a hybrid. The backend costs are the meat and potatoes of all the IP systems today. Think about this...all of Cisco's first generation IP systems are dumpster food now. Not only that but how are the systems they have today going to supply power over ethernet on a gig network...thats right chaching$$$$....or when the IP structure changes in the next few years. chaching...$$$$


[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]

Very good question. Yes we have partnered with Straitshot to deliver QoS to the phones. Their network was built for voip. I have only seen a hadnfull of providers that can guarentee QoS with thier offering.

Thanks for asking.



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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

All sentiment aside I'll give you a more detailed list of why I don't see hosted as good option:
1) you mentioned that PBX calls for multiple components in order to provide all the features. You are correct that this is often the case but I see this as a good thing. Consolidated hardware means consolidated failure. If my voicemail dies remember that the customer is still running fine with the PBX. If your Router, data switch or ISP connection dies what do you have.
2) How many simultaneous line/BLF appearences can you do with Polycom? Maybe 8 at most. We can do 24 on a comdial EP100-24. If you have GUI appearence on a PC app that's bad becuase you need your computer monitor to run other apps while your on the phone. If you have GUI appearence on the phone that's bad becuase you probably can't see all the appearences on the same menu level. Point is--you can't see what's going on at a glance.
3)Can you do hands free intercom between phones. This is a basic need & I haven't seen any hosted services that can do it.
4) Most places you can't get ISP services that impliment QOS. That's why I say it's better to process in house traffic locally & only use public ISP services where it's necessary. If you order dedicated point to point then you've just lost your cost saving with VOIP hosting.
5) Can you do whisper page? Another basic feature.
6) Hosted services will require more bandwith than none hosted. This is an ongoing expense that will eventaully eat up any saving on the install.

I could go on about what I see as negatives.

You gave your feature set all of which I can do with most any PBX plus the following. Take note that this is the Comdial MP5000 basic feature set.

Abandon Hold Release
Access Denied All Revisions
Account Codes with Positive Verifications
Account Code Button
All-Call Paging
All Intercom Links Busy Indication
Analog Terminal Inerface (ATI-X)
Area Paging Interface
Assist Button
Automatic Call-Back
Automatic Dialing
Automatic Hold for Intercom
Automatic Hold-Line to Intercom
Automatic Hold-Line to Line
Automatic Pause Insertion
Automatic Privacy
Automatic Redial (Of Busy All Revisions Number or Unanswered Call)
Auxiliary Equipment Interface
Auxiliary Station Ringer Interface
Background Music
Basic Key Service (1A2) Emulation
Battery Back-Up
Battery Back-Up Interface
Block Programming
Call Announce with Handsfree Answerback
Call Costing and Station
Message Detail Accounting Reports
Call Forwarding On
Call Forwarding - Personal
Call Park
Call Pick-Up - Directed
Call Pick-Up - Group
Call Transfer - Screened
Call Transfer - Unscreened
Call Waiting Tone
Calling Station Identification On BLF
Cassette Tape Up/Download Of COS Data
Centrex/CO Compatible
Class Of Service Programming
Class Of Service Printout
Common Audible Ringer Interface
Conferencing - Add-On
Conferencing - Multiline
Conferencing - Unsupervised
Data Security
Dedicated Intercom For Attendant
Default Functional Program
Default Toll Restriction
Delayed Ringing
Designated Programmable Buttons
Dial "0" for System Attendant
Directed Dept. Calling With
Dept. Call Distribution (DCD)
Direct Inward Station Dial (DISD)
Direct Station Call Hold
Direct Station Selection With
Busy Lamp Field (DSS/BLF)
Distinctive Ringing
Do Not Disturb
Do Not Disturb Inhibit
Do Not Disturb Override
Doorbox Monitor Support
Dual Intercom
Dynamic Line Keys
End-To-End Signaling On ITCN
End-To-End Signaling On Lines
Exclusive Hold All Revisions
Exclusive Hold System-Wide
ExEcumail Integration
Excecutive/Attendant Override
Extended Dual Tone Multiple
Frequency (DTMF)
External Paging Interface
Feature Inhibit All Revisions
Flexible Ringing Assignments
Flexible Ringing Assignments OF PA Port
Flexible Station & Line Class Of Service Control
Flexible Station Numbering Plan
Full Button Progammability Of Features
Handsfree Answer Inhibit All Revisions
"I Hold" & "I Use" Indications
Idle Line Preference
Intercom Hunt Group
Intercom Line Timeout
Last Number Redial
LCD Messaging
LCD Support
Line Access Restriction
Line Answer From Any Station (Night Mode)
Line Groups
Line Pre-selection
Line & Line Group Queuing
Manual Hold
Meet-Me Answer Page
Memory Retention Without Batteries
Message Waiting
Modular Wiring & Jacks 4
Conductor Wire System
Music Interface
Music-On-Hold
Music-On-Hold System-Wide
Mute
Night Transfer (Of Ringing)
Night Transfer Of Ringing Button
Off-Hook Voice Announce
(OHVA) With Handsfree Answerback
On-Hook Dialing
OPX Support
Originating Denied
PA Port Timeout
PBX Compatible
Personalized Ringing Tone
Pooled Line Access
Power Failure Transfer
Power "On" Indication
Prime Line Automatic
Privacy - Designated Button
Privacy Release
Private Lines
Programmable Buttons
Programmable Password
Pulse/Tone Switchable
Remote Programming & Admin.
Response Messaging
Ringing Line Preference
Saved Number Redial
Secure Off-Hook Voice
Announce (SOHVA) With Response Messaging
Secure Off-Hook Voice Announce (SOHVA) Groups
Secure Off-Hook Voice Announce (SOHVA) Originate Button
Self Diagnostics
Service Observing
Service Observe Blocking
Speakerphone Support
Square/Non-Square Config.
Station By Station Privacy
Station Messaging Detail Accounting (SMDA)
Station Messaging Detail Recording (SMDR)
Station Monitoring With DSS Call Pickup
Station Speed Dial
Subdued Ringing
System Speed Dial
System Reset
Tandem Attendant
Tap (Flash)/Recall
Tenant Service
Timed Hold Recall
Toll Restriction (0 and 1)
Toll Restriction (Flexible)
Toll Restriction (Night Mode)
Tone Or Voice Signaling (ITCM)
Transfer/Conference Button
Unanswered Call Transfer Recall Timing
Voice Announce Blocking
Voicemail Transfer On Busy
Zone Paging (Via Station Spkr)
Service Observe Block
SOHVA Button
SOHVA Groups
Account Code
DISD
Programmable/Administrator and Installer Passwords
Voicemail Transfer on Busy
System Reset from VDT COS
Allow SLPS phone support on Express Systems
P.A. Port timeout (system wide programmable for 5 seconds or never)
Added Zonal Call Costing Feat.
Added Night Mode Key

My question(s)were what are the advantages and how many have you seen. Again, I was just trying to get the opinion of some industry veterans. Indeed I do know of some of the advantages we have cost wise, I just didnt know what you guys would say as an argument vs TDM and how many were actually out there.

Actually your points were some of the more valid posted. I just wish you didnt have to be so harsh about it. I could go back and forth on your but I dont think thats a good idea for me. My mear 6 posts dont carry much merit compared to your moderatorship.

My gut feeling is that some on this board may actully think this may be a viable option but mabey dont want to say so because of what others may think of them. I could be wrong, but thats just what I feel.

Thnaks to all for hearing me out.

I'll be sticking around and lurking if anyone doesnt mind...

Thanks,

bbarnes

I'm here to learn & I'm sure you're welcom to stick around & do the same. I try to stay on top of all technologies such as hosted PBX so that I'm prepared if the market changes. I have nothing against it--it's just that I can't see any reason to recommend this to my customer. I will admit that after digging into the service you're looking at that it comes closer to being acceptable than anything I've seen thus far. However nowhere near good enough to justify replacing a PBX with it. It may work for a small co with 3-4 employees.

[This message has been edited by aweaver (edited June 23, 2005).]

bbarnes. No one is trying to run you off. All sides are welcome. We customer premise equipment guys are opinionated but can usually back up our statements with real world applications and have seen too many issues with the hosted side. I personally don't think VOIP to the desktop is mature. It is surely capable of being a nightmare when the enduser changes items on the network and effectively destroy QOS. We use VOIP for tying remote locations together. Works fine lasts a long time. We use them for telecommuters. Again works well. Remember most are not pushing TDM over VOIP. THe general feeling is that hybrid is the safest and most economical way today. When I ask people why they want VOIP they say so I can move my own phones without calling you. I say price a VOIP solution and I price mine with a new fangled piece of technology called a PATCH PANEL and they are amazed that they don't have to pay through the nose just to move their own sets.

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Business Phone Systems

Thanks guys.

aweaver, just so you know we can do handsfree intercom. That was one of the first things I asked.

As far as your other features I'm sure we do can most but not all and vise versa. Points well taken though. I appreciate you admiting that our service is closer to any others you have seen. I'll take that as a compliment. Seriously.

RATHER BE FISHING
I agree with you on the hybrid stuff. That was actually how I started to get into this whole thing. I went looking for a hybrid solution that could support 3 party SIP so people could have "throw away IP phones" like shools in the gymnasium, warehouses etc. The only thing those people knew about voip was no Moves Ads Changes fees and using your phone at home.

When I ran into what I found (Interactive Intelligence) I saw a box I could sell into any environment (existing PBX or not) and it would just act as an application box (UM, IVR, ACD, VoIP, etc) or it could stand on its own. The only problem was price (which was what I was aiming for in the first place!). Thats why I decided to look at the hosted model. The rest is history.

As far everyone else. Thanks again for all your comments (both positive and negative) and I will be keeping everyone in the loop as we plow ahead.

Anyone is free to e-mail me anytime if they want to say hi.

Thanks again.

-bbarnes

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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

[This message has been edited by bbarnes (edited June 23, 2005).]

All I want to know is if you deside not to get the "Dial Tone Feather" when you pic up the handset will there be an operator to connect you to Andy or Aunt Bee.

What you may not realize is that most of us have dealt with a "hosted" solution for many years already - it's called Centrex, and we hate it. There is too much complication and wasted time involved when you have to place orders just to have some button programming or ringing assignments changed, not to mention the hassle (and cost) of adding phones. Sure, it saves money for a small office (less than 6 or 8 phones) but it will never run as smoothly as a Key System.

This is just my $.02, but I think it may explain where some of this "agression" (agravation?) is coming from.

On another note, are you planning to charge $45 to $50 for each telephone set or just those with DID numbers? Do you have the capability to set up ACDs? Will the telephones work through your average firewall etc.? Our local telco will be offering a similar service very soon and I'm just curious what it'll look like...

I have also dealt with centrex wich was so hyped up, because you did not need to by a PBX, that allot of customers signed up for the service. Ask those ex-centrex customers today about there experience and then you will see aggretion. The worst part of it all were the companies who re-sold centrex services and then dissapearing into the night, leaving customers with no dial tone and a whole lot of bills to pay. Companies today know that when it comes to there telephone system they are not willing to gamble it away on something that sounds to good to be true. You get what you payed for.

Vani

45-50 for everyone with the GUI. Everyone gets a DID. If they just want dialtone we call that a "phone only". As long as they have at least 10 GUI's they can get as many "phone only's" for $29.95/month.

Right now we have "certified" Polycom's. They need to have a static IP. So any remote users have to be connected to a VPN where our QoS circut comes into.

However we have tested with the WISP 5000. Its a Hitatchi wifi phone. If you haveent seen I suggest that you take a look. It looks like a cell phone, the battery life is great and it will work in any hotspot. Not bad for $29.95/mo.

On another note. I hate Centrex too. Always have.

First I would like to say that I come from the old school and believe there is nothing like a good reliable pbx, but I'm telling you the future is VOIP and its coming quicker then you think. I just got back from a week long class for the Cisco Call manager and it is solid. They make programing more difficult then it needs to be, but its there. We are 5 months away from going all VOIP(600 extension). I was in a meeting with Seimens about a new system and they said that all there R&D is going into VOIP. You have to roll with it and find your niche.

Ya mean I'm not alone?



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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

bbarnes, Do you actually have the hosted pbx at your site or are you reselling the service. We looked at rebranding Level 3 but then read they were going to discontinue the service and got turned off of it. (I believe they are trying to "clean up" the company for a buyout). There seems to be many advantages for the hosted as the feature set increases. What softswitch are you using and what software (sylantro, broadsoft,etc..)

We actually host ourselves and developed the enhancements to make it work in a GUI. We are a master integrator and an independent software vendor for Interactive Intelligence (that's our platform). They have more features than anything I have seen on one platform. I havent talked to anyone from Sylantro so I cant speak to them but all of the Broadsoft people I have talked to say they have'nt delivered on promises they made years ago and its pretty expensive to get into. Our program is more of a plug and play. We do allow Co-branding and we take care of everything else. All we ask of our partners is that they show up on site (and sell of course). We config everything.

Another good question. Thanks.

-bbarnes



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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

How many systems do you have in the field?

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mgere, God bless your nightmare. 600 extensions, Cisco? There are so many basic functions not supported I can't believe they are still in the phone business. Good luck my friend.

29.95/month is kinda steep for a large application. I am assuming the customer provides their own phones as well?

29.95 was if they had already purchased the $45-50 GUI apps that they need at least 10 of. So your at a minimum of 450, plus how ever many of the "phone only" deals at 29.95 a pop. Then add the phones, guess on the low side of 200 a piece for a "throw away IP phone", possibly upgrading the network to accommodate all this. Of course they are not going to purchse POE switches so now ya got damn power plugs everywhere. I didn't see mention of MOH which I think would be BIG for a company. Oh you want to use your phone at home, well you need to setup a VPN too, which I doubt they install. After everything is said and done, I'm thinking a Hybrid is going to be cheaper. Are you giving them internet as well? No one doubts VOIP is the future, Hosted VOIP, not so much. Not trying to be angry here, but if you are going to say how your system is so much better, then lay your cards down.

[This message has been edited by OhioTelecom (edited June 24, 2005).]

Hey bbarnes,

We have several pure IP systems installed that are working great. They are all larger than your 5-50 user range for the most part, so I'm sure the CPE approach still makes sense for the customers we've installed.

My biggest problem with the "hosted" solution is that, well....it kind of reminds me of AMWAY, in that I have seen a lot of people peddaling it, but I don't know ANYONE (other than the people selling it) that actually uses it.

I'm certified on the converged solutions from the top three manufacturers of IP CPE, and my company actually had a relationship with Interactive Intelligence in the past (I remember when my ININ stock was $45 per share).

I am in Omaha as well. So, while somewhat scepticle, I would be interested enough to let you buy me lunch while I listen to the rest of your pitch!

Welcome to the board!

BCM(looking for a free lunch)Guy.com


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BCM Guy
www.BCMguy.com
Learn more about the Nortel Networks Business Communications Manager HERE !

Coral Tech, Help me out. What basic functions are you talking about. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'm talking about IP telephony. Help me out with any troubles you have see.

Ok, first thing you were talking about the Cisco product. The fact remains you cannot get a second line appearance on your phone even though you are using DID/PRI. Ouch. MOH is a seperate server and considered an ad-on $$$. Never ending updates and never knowing what updates will affect which routers and the QOS. Gig ethernet will not allow for power blades for POE. Large installs will consume VASTLY more power than a hybrid. Tell ya what, I have nothing against Telephony over IP...TOIP. In fact I deploy IP weekly when it makes sense to do so. I simply don't see where a hybrid is never a better way to go. Moving phones around can be accomplished easilly now on hybrids AND I would add needs to be restricted in Illinois due to e911 concerns and updating the locator services. To name a few....

Seems like the numbers don't work to me. $50 per month for each phone?? So if you have 30 phones you pay $1,500 each month?? Even if that includes the T1 (does it?) that sounds like a huge amount of money each month. Seems like you would be way ahead to get your own T1, lease a system for 5 years with a $1 buyout and own it at the end. Am i missing something here???. I can remember a local computer vendor who offered hosted exchange services but nobody wanted it because it made more sense to buy your own server and pay to service it and you still came out way ahead.

Thanks for all the info, more the better. I'm still in the learning process, so don't think I'm arguing with you. We have about 800 cat6 drops in the building and our six IDFs have 4500 cisco switches and all the blades are POE. When you said 2nd line apperance did you mean two incoming #s? Because what we do now is a DID is put on a phone and if it is busy and another call comes in it will roll to the 2nd internal extension. Is that possible?

5. A total of about 75 phones. We wanted to turn a few up before we announced our existence. That will be next month at the Microsoft conference. So far so, good.

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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

[This message has been edited by bbarnes (edited June 28, 2005).]

Actully I thought that was cheap. Packet8 is $39.95/mo and they are one of the cheapest.

Customer CAN provide their own phones, but we usually do.



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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

I apprieciate the feedback. No offense taken at all.

No need to upgrade the network if I bring in a QoS private internet circuit.

Yes we can do 802.3af (POE) and yes a POE switch is more expensive but worth it to some.

MOH goes without saying.

I am doing ROI's as we speak for the conference. We win on hardware and features every time. Monthly's are close but if you factor in less maintenance then we get another bump. Right now I am doing our vs a Samsung 8x16 hybrid and also a 6x8. I think this is fair becuase Samsung is one of the least expensive "mainstream" (not some cheap SIP server by an unknown) PBX's out there...



[This message has been edited by bbarnes (edited June 28, 2005).]

Small world. Lunch is on me anytime. I'm in the corporate office this week but I will be back in town next. Where do you want to go? E-mail me and we'll hook up. It would be my pleasure.

-bbarnes



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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

You are not missing anything. and no, it does not include the T1. For a basic 50 user PBX a better fit is a CPE solution (which we also will do as well by the way...). However if that 50 user customer wanted Unified Messaging, Call Recording in and outbound faxing, text to speech, presence, ACD, call queuing and monitering then mabey he would fit one of our hosted products. A better fit for hosted might be....

10 retail sites with 4 phones ea. Each site is likeley to have 4-5 co's for dialtone, faxing, credit card machines, etc. To put voice mail (let alone UM and MOH) on 10 little key systems is gonna be way more than us. Besides the customer still wouldnt have full integrated connectivity between all locations. And in our solution, we provide them with a full blown Outlook Web Access account, so their e-mail would be taken care of too.

As I said before. Hosted doesnt fit all applications but in some situations it is very cost concious...

Thanks for the feedback.

[This message has been edited by bbarnes (edited June 28, 2005).]

bbarnes, how large does the ININ scale to? Do you tie into the SS7 network and PSAP for 911/E911? When your customers call out are they sending out caller id/name and number to the called party? Are you reselling DID numbers from a CLEC?, what happens if the customer wants to switch to someone else, do you own those numbers that you got from your telco provider and if they leave your service can they port them? I wouldn't factor in any price issues with POE, I think that managed POE switches will be almost the norm from manufacturers due to so many devices running IP. and customers harldy ever complain about upgrading/replacing switches with faster/better ones.

annacat,

The CPE ININ (Customer Interaction Center) will scale to 5000 users. That may be per server but I'm not positive.

"Do you tie into the SS7 network and PSAP for 911/E911?"

Not sure what this means as I am not an enginerr. But we provide a "True 911 Solution" (not "e911"). Meaning a customer can dialout from our phones and dial locval 911. It requires a Cisco adapter and we put it into our dialing plan from their local copper line.

Yes we do resell DID from a Gloabl LEC. I have no problem sharing who that is on the phone but a message board probably isnt the best place for me to offer that up. And yes, customers can port in and out to our service.

I like your thoughts on POE too. Thanks.

bbarnes

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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

a CLEC (NuVox)is doing a beta site here and I'm doing the data cabling. Cost is $39.00 per phone per month for 10 phones. LD is included. No other details yet.

Thanks for the news. Please let me know the details when you get some. Thanks.

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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

This is a great board. Not too easy to find though.

My feeling with hosted services is that they can be very compelling if QoS isn't a critical issue. Particularly if you don't have a huge IT system in place.

Paul,

Welcome to the board. If you read earlier in this thread you will see that our service will deliver QoS as well. As long as we deliver the circuit...

Thanks for the note.

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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

BBarnes - any progress to report??

Yes, in fact much. I have been planning a new thread on an update for about a week now. When I get some time, I will post it. Hopefully sometime in the next few days. Thanks for asking.


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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

Please let me know. I was actually reading an article somewhere about hosted ip services, remembered this post and came back to see if there had been any follow up. I would be very curious to hear more about this whole concept - thanks.

upstateny,

I am posting on the updates. Sorry for the delay. Let me know if there are any more details you want to know. Thanks.

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www.itel-ip.com

VoIP, with Features Galore

Just found this board, great place!

I was seriously considering hosted VOIP pbs solution till I read through this thread.. now I'm cautious......

I'm setting up a new office; 6-9 users and love my home vonage (Click2call integration with outlook, simulring etc so was leaning to voip, but.....

I have a Norstar SPNS824_M7310 pbs and 8 phones allready, so am wondering if figuring out a hybrid approach might make sense. But I can't spend much $$$ and would love some thoughts on potential solutions?

Thanks... Peter

Welcome to the board.

Out of curiosity, what were the things in this thread you learned about hosted voip that now make you cautious?

Has anyone heard/seen problems with viruses, hacks, etc with either VoIP or hosted VoIP?

I was told of a customer with local hosted company where there sets would seize up... but they were not broken, they alegedly had a virus or worm.. a real pain in the rear to troubleshoot from a tech stand point.

Also heard that, because each set has an IP address, that "voice spam"... unsolicited voice messages (advertisements) could be emailed to a phone's voice mailbox... just hearsay... anyone know anything about voice spam?

I haven't heard anything directly, but it's certainly possible with a Windows Server based system. I'd imagine that would be the lower end stuff. Cisco, for example, uses a customized version of the server OS, which I believe is hardened.

My experience is limited to 3Com products running VXWorks. Not much danger of viruses or worms there.



[This message has been edited by UpstateNetworks (edited September 20, 2005).]

Well... ready to try some voip hosted pbx!

I will be in a Regus/HQ office(hotel) for about 3-6 months and have a T1, but can't install my own pbx. Figure I'll buy 5-9 Polycom 601's and use a hosted pbx service till I move into permanent facilities.

Trick is 2 companies, several common users and several that are in one company only.

I really like the fonality solution (mod'd asterik box) but the force you to buy phones etc all through them... would be okay if they were good market prices

Seem's like a plan, any thoughts?

Why can't you install your own PBX? You are going to have to have some fairly serious bandwidth for that many sets. Were you planning on setting the sets up over hotel lan? If so reliabilty could be real problem. If you are bringing in your own data pipe then you could easily set up your own PBX. 9 sets is getting up there for a hosted solution. Could you give us a little more info as to what your scenario is? May be able to offer a better solution if we had more.

I checked them out when I saw your post. A couple things I noticed...

1. Nice website
2. Made the Pulver hot 100, impressive
3. They seem to specialize in "a cheap premised based PBX" (it appears they offer a hosted version too, but I didn’t see any pricing or a lot of specifics on it)

In regards to their features...

1. It looks like pretty much the same stuff most companies offer
2. No desktop faxing?
3. Decent outlook integration but it doesn’t look like they provide outlook for you.
4. I didn’t see any guarantee of QoS
5. Their LD rates seem a little high ($.039 a min?)
6. Forcing people to buy phones from them is just mean.

The scenario you have with 2 companies and lots of crossover people is pretty basic. They should just give you 2 auto attendants and route calls to wherever they need to go based on workgroups. Unless there is something else I don’t know, I would think they should do this for free. I would.


All in all they look like a solid solution but they just don’t have something much different than anyone else.


Good Luck!