atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Nortel Telephones & Systems Am I being over sold?

Two questions.

1. We purchase the BCM400 and we are getting a support contract where they monitor the BCM. One of the pieces of hardware they included was a Connectivity VPN router. To me this looks just like one of those off the shelf Dlink routers that you can get anywhere, but this one is way more pricy. If I already have my own VPN routers with built in VPN capablities, hardware firewall, and port forwarding do I need this device for the company to monitor the BCM400 or do they just need a forwarded port?

2. The same company is putting in the BCM400 and a paging system with the Valcom speakers. The paging system is coming with an amp for sure, but the person programming the phone asked what device I have for the Night Bell to ring over the paging system?

I don't know if there was something built into my old MICS but it looks to me like a connection comes right off the punch blocks for my extensions and goes right to the amp on my MICS. Apparently the BCM400 might not have this - I don't know. But if the same company is installing the BCM400 and the paging shouldn't they have included whatever is needed for the night bell?

I won't touch the first question.

as for the...
I can't & won't speak for others, but for me most clients don't want or need a night bell. Therefore, it would not have been included in the quote, unless they had requested it or that I knew that it was needed ahead of time.

That being said...some companies (like the really big one around here, I won't name names)low ball the quote to get the job, then add what is really needed. Ex: They quoted for a CICS 4x8 with restricted software, when the client was already ordering 8 phones plus a Call pilot and they needed 5 lines. Not ethical in my opinion.

Mind you, this is the same company that had their Sales Reps call existing clients when a new area code was coming out & telling them that they wouldn't be able to call into the new area code or receive call from it either unless they changed their system from a Nortel Vantage to the New Norstar.

When I complained to one of the local PBX Foreman about this, he said that it was "Just Good Marketing".....BS, if not fraud is what it was.

Dave

Mics has nothing more than an N.O. contact which then needs to be interfaced with any number of paging devices to produce a tone.

Sure youre being oversold; possibly. But if thats what they want to use, then so be it. If they are supporting their install for the long term then I wouldnt nickel and dime the proposal; unless of course its coming out of your bonus.

~n

As for the VPN issue. Yes you ARE being oversold. You did not say if the BCM will be connected to a new internet circuit or your existing internet. I am assuming all will use your existing. In that case how will their VPN router connect into your network and how will that provide anything different than with your existing VPN router provides?

Either they don't know what they are doing or they are trying to bilk you for money you don't need to spend.

Just ask lots of questions from them and others until you are clear about how it all will work.

Also please be sure to get your IT person involved. As one from the IT world its stuff like this that makes our life more difficult, when we are not asked beforehand about how it will impact the network.

Case in point... Copier installers plug their machines into the LAN, grab a DHCP IP address, and assign it as static. Uh why won't that work.. Because you are an idiot copier installer who knows nothing about networks!

Jordan, if the company is an authorized dealer for Nortel, they know exactly what they are doing. They should have qualified network personnel on staff to handle these issues. As far as being oversold, just tell them you want to provide your own equipment to connect to the network. They shouldn't have a problem with that. Any trouble that occurs with the network side of the BCM will then fall back on you or your IT department. Less of a headache for the seller IMO.

As far as bringing in the CG (IT guy), I would tell him only what he needs to know. Tell him what you need and what he needs to provide for you, and leave it at that. If you start talking to them about the phone system, they will suddenly become an expert and think they know everything about it!

Case in point:
CG has two phone jacks in his office. The phone at his desk works great. He decides he is so important he needs a second phone at the small conference table in his office. He figures he will cheap out by splicing into the cable that goes to his desk phone, thus adding a second extension for the conference table. Orders a new telephone online and plugs it in. NOW neither his desk phone nor the conference table phones will work. I go in and check it out. I inform him (much to his dismay) that this will not work. I explain to him that each phone has to have a separate extension number, and you cannot connect two phones to the same jack. He got a little upset when I explained to him that I had to run a new cable for the phone, and that he had to return his "internet special" telephone, as it would void the warranty on his entire system if it were installed.

keep the CG's hands away from the telephone equipment and you will be O.K :thumb:

Valcom and I assume Viking make inexpensive units that will work off a relay to inject a sound into the amplifier.

Another way of doing this is to send ringing from 7100 or 7208 speaker leads into a low-z input on the amplifier. When the phone rings, the amplifier puts out the night bell ringing.

If you only have 600 ohm inputs, use a Radio Shack 8 ohm to 1000 ohm audio transformer in series from the phone to the amplifier.

Bogen makes a product call a NR-100 Which will make a tone go over the Paging when activated will work. I have not work with BCM but lots of MICS.
https://www.bogen.com/products/specialelectronics/