atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Panasonic Telephones & Systems Need manuals

Seems a strange attitude to suggest that a customer should have to buy something which normally comes free in the box (both printed and on CD)! Perhaps by being co-operative, "db Communications " will demonstrate to the customer the value of going to a relaible source rather than buying from some 2nd rate source online. If the customer, having obtained the mauals, is able to do the job on his own, then you've got to ask whether or not setting up the system is really a job for a professional at all. I think, more likely, the customer will get the manuals, and realise he needs professional help, at which point "db Communications" steps in and charges him a fair fee for setting up his system. And although he didn't make anything on the sale of the system, he will have a happy customer who needs his ongoing support - and who will certainly not be going back to the on-line guy I'd think.
I personally think there is something pretty wrong with asking customers to pay for manuals which they need to operate a piece of equipment - imagine if you got your new TV home, and there was no handbook - you'd be pretty annoyed if the dealer told you that was an optional extra, or you could download it from the manufacturers web site, but only if you are a qualified TV engineer!
Downloadable manuals are a great idea - they save shipping costs, and they help to save the environment! - they ought to be the normal method of manual distribution, and they ought to be free.

LOL Just recently bought a "new" 5x9 processor (partner/avaya)from our distr.... got no manuals/cd, i believe its just another part of his scam. I paid WAY to much for it with no manuals.. and then find them for $$$ with all!! can any1 match or beat that $?

Edited by Brokeda

any new avaya acs processor Ive ever gotten came with a CD .

your probably getting it from a gray market source and their stripping out the cd for a few extra dollar profit

that or its a refurb

Kinda what i figured... they are a "big" refurb company, but I was told it was "new"... waranty sticker looked to be avaya, but i paid to much for no manuals.. although i don't wan't to but i may be putting this company on the hall of shame.
We have about 1200 in t/m jobs through them and nothing,e got a bill for this processor the same day we got the processor,, so i'm kinda lookin for a new distr.


************* Edited by Brokeda.

any1 with good partner avaya prices ??? please pm me.. i'm not in a big company but we do alot of business!!
thanks in advance

I was always under the impression that you guys in the USA were much quicker at going to court to resolve problems than we are in the UK. If someone told me a product was new, or "as new", I'd expect to receive evrything that normally comes with it from the manufacturer, and if someone tried to charge extra for it, I'd be straight to the courthouse for the paperwork! If you ordered a car (sorry - automobile!), even if you were told you were getting it cheap because it was a demonstrator, you'd go ballistic if they tried to charge extra for the drivers seat! Any goods supplied without everything you need to make it work, and can reasonably expect to be included, are in UK legal terms "not of merchantable quality", and the buyer can reject them.

90 percent of the time by the time the equipment
gets on the wall they are 2 revs behind
so the cds that come with the kit are useless
anyway .so the lads over here that are legit
certified dealers and not trunk slamers
rely on software updates online and if the
customers needs the docs such as users guide
feature guide I will go as far as loading the
latest and greatest on there pc for them.

Good point S.N.C. - though you'll probably find if you read the small print (does anyone?!) that you're in breech of some license agreement by copying the docs onto the customer PC!
If the manufacturer expects the customer to be able to do something, it seems crazy (and very poor customer relations) to ask them to pay for instructions! The more info and support given by the manufacturer to the customer, the easier life will be for dealer and customer alike.
Give away technical info., and there will always be some customers who think they are smart enough to do the job for themselves (a few of them might be right!), but the really smart customers just realise that the job is a lot more complex than they can tackle themselves, and appreciate the need for a real expert - those are the customers who are worth having! (Usually they realise that real expertise and customer care are worth paying for too, and don't moan about the cost!)

Sorry my friday rage opened this in 2 spots..

you mean you have time to read fine print
but can't read the manual and figuir out
how to make the least complex system
that panasonic makes toll restriction work... LOL

Well, I'm from a computing background, so I've seen so many of those "fine print" documents (you know the ones where everyone clicks on "I Agree", even though they don't know what they're agreeing to! :scratch: