sundance-communications.com/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Information on Phone Systems

I'm going to respond to those statements, but hope that everyone understands that I write this as an opinion and that I do agree with Ralph a bit and that this is done with a smile and is not in any way to be mean-spirited.
1. "The majority of all the systems we are installing are all IP enabled." --Well, that may be true---but back in the 80's---there were a lot of PBX manufacturers that pushed tie lines & opx's , all the modem & fax machines on the switch---because they said this was the wave of the future. Well--that philosophy went away (Ilinois Bell & others just didn't want to support all that stuff---so they made them too expensive to buy) and other philosophies came. Those philosophies, in my opinion, are rooted not in the application of a technology, but rather rooted in the MARKETING of a technology--i.e --sell your customer the latest stuff so we all can make some money. Get your customers thinking that they need all of this stuff to operate. Don't get me wrong. We all need to keep the economy moving, and we all need to make more money and have more sales---but from a philosophy standpoint, I have to stand back a bit and have a "wait & see" attitude. I've seen the young bulls go crazy because of some new box or new innards for the box--or a new bunch of wires. This leads, then, to statement # 2
2. "This technology is moving so fast that some of our senior techs are having trouble with the new stuff."---Well, it's probably because they really don't believe in it. And the reason why things move so fast sometimes, is that only 5 percent of the stuff---STICKS AROUND. Most technicians really get a kick out of solving problems, and doing it in a somewhat unique way if possible. The plug n' play techs (actually they are MARKETERS) think that if you've sold a customer something new and different, then you've solved a problem. Maybe so---Maybe not. However I still agree with you---senior techs seem to want to wallow in their "comfort zone" which is generally about 3 or more years old. We all have to take the blinders off, and listen to the new guys and try out the new gizmos.
3. "I agree that a clear understanding of networks and Servers (MS & Linux) would be of greater help now than sweating color codes." If someone can understand MS & Linux, I can't understand why they would have trouble learning color codes. It's easy, but most of all---IT'S BASIC. That's what differentiates the telephone tech from a computer tech. The telephone tech knows telephone stuff AND the computer stuff. Some are better than others, for sure. Which leads us to # four.
4. "Although that is very important, I can more easily get people to pull my cable & terminate my blocks than I can to get someone who can put a phone on a network and ensure QOS." Actually, I've got to have a person who knows both. The reason why a person can't pull cable and terminate blocks should be because they get too fat, too old, too arthritic, and can't see. (I'm getting there--fast). When that happens, that person becomes senior tech or operations manager or starts his own company. I'm lucky. I am working with some exceptional men. I have, however, hired and let go, many guys who were "just cable pullers" (you've got to lay down a 66 block the right way too, ya know)--or could program any system if given the book and the time---(I never could afford the time they took on site to read the book) But ---that's all NEW installs. Where all the guys, who don't understand the basics, go wrong is -- in crossconnecting a new line to a suite in a building that has been there for 20 plus years. Things are not labeled. Things are not plug'n play. Instead of running a new cable, a man who knows color codes and has some comon telephone sense can turn a 4 hour job into a 1 hour job. But---if you adhere to a marketing philosophy--then I guess, you'd rather put in a new cable---but if you adhere to a problem-solving philosophy, then you use what you have and use your head.
I love to listen to techs and customers---who have a curiosity. I always have time for them. I don't have any time for the many "Tele-Comp-Marketer-Tech-Sales' gurus, who just got out of a BusAd class and try to tell me that a frac t-1 is going to end at a CSU/DSU in a v.32/db9 interface---when the customer has a 4 line Partner ACS---especially when we have been working with the carrier for 5 years now….and they ALWAYS put in a channel bank and terminate the C.O. lines on a 66m split block. I understand that he's all excited about the data side, but there are a lot of systems out there that have no need to interface with a t-1. I'm done. Next week I may change my mind about this stuff. Ya never know.
mick

Very well put JW

After all if you would have told a retiring 1A2 tech that systems would be working on a single pair of wires per station with features up the wazu and have a thing called Voice Mail, they would have told you that your nuts and were watching to many Jeffersons cartoons. I have seen many changes that back then would have been mind boggling, but seem perfectly simple now.

Personally I try and look at everything that comes out and I encourage my young techs to learn Tel, IP, Networking, Video as it will all come together and I think it is sooner then we think.
Well that's my two cents

Jetsons!

I just spotted that LOL, don't know why I put Jeffersons.

pots lines....copper cabling....66 blocks...and all that neat stuff aint going away for a long time......

key/pbx systems that work on pots lines will be around for many many many years.....

if ya want to learn the phone business....hook up with an old timer or pick up one of those ABC manuals thats entitled 1a2 systems and read it.....

ARE WE ALL STILL PUZZLED BY THAT NITSUKO SYSTEM?????????
AND I THOUGHT I WAS THE TIE KING.......

OH AND BY THE WAY.....FAT - OLD - ARTHRITIC....that sounds like me except you left off LAZY.........

Is 48 years old going on 60 old to any of you guys????

There are somedays I think I should buy stock in Grecian Formula....

Ralph, what kind of IP systems are you installing? I am curious, as I, like most of the guys on the board, are interested in learning more about IP platforms.

As for what JW and the others said, they are right. IP is coming, but it ain't here yet, and it won't be for everyone. It will be application specific initially, with a slow migration to the main stream over time. IP requires constant bandwidth, something that is not as available to everyone as you might think. It is also only cost effective to a certain point. A small business with 5 lines and 10 co-located employees would not benefit from it like a company with 500 employees across the country. True Key and PBX systems will be around for a while, especially for those companies who don't want all their eggs in one basket.

Z-Man---Good Points. I'll ask the question about IP in the T-1, CSU/DSU section. I guess that's where it should be. If not, we'll end up somewhere else.

All of the posts have given you great and useful advice, but I will add mine for what it is worth. I agree you should prepare for new technology but current technology will be here for a while. Just look at 1A2 for example. My approach is to know the area I serve and my customers needs. I live in an ultra-conservative area of the country and new technology does not sell very well. Know your customer! Do not try to dazzle your customer with all the features that your system can provide. For most people the telephone is a tool and they are interested in their own business. If they liked telephones they would be in our business! Find out as much as you can about your customer and what he needs, then give him only what he needs. Use the “KISS” method, (keep it simple stupid). I can’t tell you how many times we win a bid because the customer is too confused or frustrated with a previous telephone system. Customers don’t like paying for service calls because they need additional training. This is the view point from a small town , maybe those from a large city will have a different opinion.
As for wiring, learn this well! Wiring that is poor or incorrect will be very costly to you in solving customer issues. I traveled for a manufacturer of PBX and key systems to help installers with customer problems. Most issues were wiring (85%) the rest (15%) programming. Programming is easy to fix, many times remotely. But a wire that runs parallel to a fluorescent or does not have the proper number of twists per foot will have to be reinstalled. I hope you find this helpful.

WillRog,

The best way to learn phone systems is to "learn and burn". It's when you get burned, embarrased, angry and have the customer over your shoulder that makes learning stick. So, in other words, just go out there and do it. The best rule is "If you touch it, test it". Never leave a customer site without testing your work. As far as reading, you can read all you want but the there is nothing documented for working in the real world.

Best of luck!