atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Vodavi Telephones & Systems Ghost Calls, Noise, then no Dial Tone

We're on a fractional voice/data T1. I will explain the problem we are having and perhaps someone can tell me if our Vodavi system may have anything to do with it (keep in mind I'm a neophyte to the whole phone system setup).

1 - All our phone lines light up at once, including the 'rollover fax' line (it detects a fax signal and rolls it over to the fax machine). I have to pick them up and hang them all up to get them to stop ringing - they are just noise calls, and they don't roll to voice mail. If I let them go, they will all stop eventually, but Line 6 will become a solid red and the fax line will continue to ring indefinitely.

2 - Existing calls are cut, and occasionally when this happens all lines are dead for outbound calls (though we can still get inbound calls).

3 - Resetting the AdTran VSU/DSU seems to fix it for awhile (from a few seconds to a few months), then it starts up again. But our service provider replaced the unit already and the problem persists.

4 - Sometimes when the ghost calls start, they are preceded by an outbound fax call. The fax machine actually rings like it is making a call, which it never does any other time. It's almost as if our fax machine is calling an outside line to validate a connection or something. I get the feeling that the way the fax machine is programmed into our phone system might be the culprit, but I do not have the knowledge to research this or do anything about it.

5 - It doesn't affect the data at all, thus leading me into the direction of the problem originating from our phone system, though our Service Provider continues to monitor and test

6 - Our service provider tested the circuit and the smart jack; both came out clean. They are continuing to monitor and placed us on a "Chronic Problem" list.

The place I work for doesn't want to pay someone to check out our phone system. They really can't afford to, and they want to keep the ball in our service provider's court. (We have no vendor for our phone system; they went out of business). Nevertheless, I'm not convinced that it is the fault of our T1 provider. It just seems to me that they could have fixed it by now (months of repeated problems) if it were a problem with them or with the circuit.

Can anybody help point me in troubleshooting directions? Articles online? Does this sound like a known issue with this hardware? Any help appreciated.

nova:
It seems to me that you are continually answering your own questions.
1.)"Resetting the AdTran VSU/DSU seems to fix it for awhile"
2.)"...they are preceded by an outbound fax call."
3.)"I get the feeling that the way the fax machine is programmed into our phone system might be the culprit..."
4."...thus leading me into the direction of the problem originating from our phone system, though our Service Provider continues to monitor."
HOWEVER--you cut your legs out from yourself by saying "The place I work for doesn't want to pay someone to check out our phone system. They really can't afford to, and they want to keep the ball in our service provider's court. (We have no vendor for our phone system; they went out of business)."

So..it seems that your place of work would rather keep pointing their finger at the t-1 provider---even though it seems as if you desperately need a Vodavi service tech to do some basic troubleshooting. This board may be able to help a technician or someone who knows something about your system...is that you? The first thing you're going to have to tell us, is --What kind of Vodavi system is this?? Do you have a test set of any kind??
Is there a VM involved?? How many lines do you have. Is the fax line on a s/l port on the system, or on a fax switch??
If this is a phone system problem---who the heck are you going to get to drive to Tulsa and do this work (for free)--if you don't have someone local to take care of it?? Good Luck.

> It seems to me that you are continually
> answering your own questions.

As I said, I'm a neophyte. Just trying to get an educated opinion on what to do next.

I handle everything from the Domain Controller to the workstation. Not the voice side, though technically I am responsible for it (except that they won't let me call a tech and spend money). I also do all the PC hardware installation/troubleshooting, so I have familiarity with all sorts of hardware, just no specific knowledge with phone systems. Can they be much different? (I say this in jest)

There really is nobody here knowledgeable to deal with the phone system; it's a very small company struggling to 'get by.' So I do the research that I can and try to find out a general direction to go.

I just want to try everything I can to convince them of the possibility. And I'm also rather fascinated with all this hardware, too.

> It seems that your place of work would
> rather keep pointing their finger at the
> t-1 provider---even though it seems as if
> you desperately need a Vodavi service tech
> to do some basic troubleshooting.

(sound of hammer hitting nail square on head)

From a techie perspective, I agree 100%. I see no other option. I came here partly for validation of what I already know to be true, and at the same time drum up a creative way to explain, in detail, the importance of getting a tech out here before dissolving a business relationship with our T1 provider. The latter is easier to do when I can tap into the knowledge of an expert, rather than spending weeks digging through manuals.

I work for the people who invented copper wire (fighting for that last penny).

> This board may be able to help a
> technician or someone who knows something
> about your system...is that you?

I know nothing about configuring phone systems. But I have full access to the hardware.

> The first thing you're going to have to
> tell us, is --What kind of Vodavi system
> is this??

Vodavi Starplus Phone System with Digital Voice Mail.

> Do you have a test set of any kind??

No. Where does one get this and how much? Would it do a neophyte any good?

> Is there a VM involved??

Yes. Little blue Vodavi digital voice mail box.

> How many lines do you have.

20 lines.

Voice: 8 'multiline,' 1 'single line,' and 1 fax/modem line.

Data: 10 lines.

> Is the fax line on a s/l port on the
> system, or on a fax switch??

s/l port? Guessing this means single line port. According to the piece of paper in front of me, the Fax is on a Fax/Modem line.

> If this is a phone system problem---who
> the heck are you going to get to drive to > Tulsa and do this work (for free)--if you
> don't have someone local to take care of
> it?? Good Luck.

Is this not a help forum? I wasn't expecting anyone to drive here for free, just to get me started in the right direction. Please be gentle :-)

It seems that the opinion you will get is to call in a phone tech to get a handle of things. That is unless you boss likes possibly losing business

They won't lose business; at this point, they would rather keep pointing their finger at the T1 provider rather than spending the money on a tech to come and test for an hour or two.

I'm just trying to wriggle into a useful position in a nearly impossible situation. That's all. Thanks for your input.

[This message has been edited by novachild (edited May 18, 2005).]

nova:
You seem like a very intelligent & conscientious person, who is just in a bind. I say this (and I seem to be repeating myself)---you keep answering your own questions. You KNOW what has to be done. Someone (preferrably a Vodavi technician) has to physically put a test set on those pairs of wires that are your C.O. lines---and listen and try to emulate what is happening. He/she may have to go into programming. This may take somewhere between an hour to two hours to do---MAYBE, just maybe---less. But to go on & on about getting "pointed in the right direction" is fruitless. The direction is---a good tech. For $100-$200---your problems could be over. Why go through the agony? It is a choice that your company is going to have to make. To quote from the movie "Good Will Hunting"----It's not your fault---no, really---it's not your fault ---no---it's not your fault. Really--it's not your fault....

A good test set will cost your company over $300.00. It will take you months --or more to use it corrrectly. Someone could teach you in a few days. What do they want you to do?

I just don't get it. I still don't know what you have for a system. Do you have a DHS? What is the model number? Is this a STS??
It's not your fault.

JWRacedog, I appreciate your observations, esp. the quote (it's nice to be reassured every now and then).

It would be intriguing to learn how to test phone systems, but I doubt they'd be willing to spend that kind of money and then have to pay someone to train me. Though I would prefer it that way AND it would pay off bigger in the long run :-)

I'll see if I can find a Vodavi tech in the area and get a price quote. That way they can at least make a reasonably educated decision about whether to spend the money (they seem to think it's going to cost 'a thousand or more,'). $200 to test the system could save weeks of entertaining quotes, arranging business meetings, and starting business relations with yet another T1 provider - with the potential of none of it actually solving the problem.

Thank you.

> I just don't get it. I still don't know
> what you have for a system. Do you have a
> DHS? What is the model number? Is this a
> STS??

Not sure of model # (home right now, and it's in a cramped place in the closet), and I'm unfamiliar with the terms DHS and STS.

[This message has been edited by novachild (edited May 18, 2005).]

nova:

Do a search in the Vodavi forum of "STS" or "DHS" or "Triad" or "1428" or "2856":---those are all Vodavi digital systems--all somewhat similar ---however, all different. The model number of the KSU will tell us what kind of system it is. Also, what model phones will give an indication of the Vodavi system ---different phones are supported by different KSUs.

Well, it's solved. Finally convinced them of the importance of getting a phone system tech's POV. He said it was likely SW Bell and to get them out here with a T-Bird to test their lines. Bell came out and pulled the error logs from their T1 cards, found lots of errors and said they didn't need to do the T-Bird because they knew the shielding was already letting rain through. They put us on a dry pair. Said that would alleviate the problem for awhile, but blamed regulation for SWB not having enough money or manpower to replace the whole line. And bitched about the T1 providers not making SWB enough money to make the trip worth their while.

So it will happen again, no matter who our T1 provider is. And Bell is unwilling to actually fix the problem permanently.

Well...there ya go.
And I'm betting that if you were getting your T-1` from SBC---all of a sudden there'd be enough money & manpower to fix the cable. IMHO the techs just say that to cover their lazy, inept butts. I know that UT has a fine legal dept ---my son-in-law went there...but I doubt if you could scare SWB. Anyway---I think your're better off now than you were back a week ago. Good Luck