atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Vodavi Telephones & Systems Sbx bad dial tone??

Ok so I have no clue how to actually type what I want to say here lol!!! Im having a problem with an install I did last week. I have an sbx with 4 co lines going in. I plugged them all in and set them up to ring station group 620. All of the lines have dial tone going in. When I push each line button they all come up accept for line 3. I get a click like there is something there but no dial tone. I pulled the line out of the system and clipped on with my buttsett and I have dial tone. Plug it back in and nothing. If I switch it with another port then the port that was working isnt and port 3 is now working meaning its not a port issue. I tried 4 different fittings and all the same thing. Thinking maybe its a bad pair in the 25 pair from dmarc I switched to another pair. Same thing. So then thought maybe there was some foreign equipment on the line causing problems, I went back to dmarc and switched co numbers to each line. For example say I have three numbers going into system. 0001,0002,0003 (0003 being the bad one), I switched 0001 with 0003 and went back to a station to try it out. Now the line that 0001 was on is not working and the line 0003 is working. So to me that obviously means the actual wire itself is good. Also now that I have switched those numbers the line 1 has no dial tone and line 3 does. I had the customer call verizon and ask to check lines for anything on them. They came out and tested good to go. You know their response "I got dial tone to dmarc so my job is done". So Im clueless what to check now. Any help or ideas would be great.

Are you able to take the RJ that goes into the system and plug it directly into your buttset? Only thing that I can think of and you may have to if that is what you meant by "4 different fittings".

I don't think polarity would be the issue, I can't remember the last time that a system was really polarity sensitive (Comdial Impact maybe..) but it is always what we least expect that is the problem sometimes.

Where did you "clip on", try using a banjo right on the rj11 going into the sbx.OR plug into a BISCUIT BLOCK and see if you get dial tone on the red green wires, bet you have a bad plug.

Yea thats what I meant by changing the fittings. I tried four rj11 fittings. I clipped on with alligator clips and with a turtle and still got dial tone.

What is the voltage like on that line? I am just throwing things out. This is an interesting quandary.

what kind of "fittings" are you using; some are for stranded wire(Which don't work well on solid wire);and then theres the ones for solid wire.also across which pins do you get dial tone?
your original post has every indication you have a bad plug. if you get dial tone with a butt set but not on any co line jack; try using a buscuit block with the co on the red & green and use a standard mounting cord just for drill.

I have 46.5 on hook and 5.16 off hook. I was told that I should have 24-50 off and 5-15 off. Im at a loss!

Voltage is good, how does it compare to the others?

Also, have you tried swapping the physical cable that you have going to the line-in on the SBX? I know you said you swapped then to see if the port is bad, but try swapping them at the DMARC and see if it follows the cable, or try another pair if you have them available going to the SBX.

So what happened with this?

Well went back today with new KSU. Same thing. So I have switched out everything from the dmarc to the ksu and same thing. We did find out today you can make and recive calls on that line thru the system. You just cant hear the dial tone. Have no clue. We are going to get a different number on hopefully different trunk and see if it changes.

Don't know if that will work, you already said you swapped a different working co line to that port and had same trouble no?

Yes I did and it still didnt work. But I had to change every possible thing to show the customer it wasnt the system. So like I said everything in line from dmarc to phone system was changed and tested. For some reason we are able to dial out and receive phone calls but cant hear the dial tone. Just sounds like a click and then dead air.

Polarity causing the problem? Maybe low loop current? Should be 17-22 milliamps off hook.

where do we go with this now?

Ok so bad news! I had verizon come in and give us another line. Put it into the phone system and same thing. I changed between 7 different pairs on the 25 pair backbone just to make sure it wasnt that. Still nothing. Then I took the questionable pair off the new binding post and ran it to another pair that has a good line on it. Line 3 came up with the same number as line 2. So that means all the wiring is good as well as system. We are planning a vendor meet this week. We do have dial tone going into system on line 3 but no dial tone when at a station. We can dial out and recive calls on it. Just cant hear dial tone.

What happens when you put your butt-set on the line? What is the voltage of the line? Loop current?

Will, I know that I am very late in chiming-in, but have you seen the mountain of CO line parameters in programming? I couldn't believe all of the settings that are available. There sure are a lot of settings there that I could see making a CO line port misbehave.

I'd program the last port for IST. Then I'd take a FACTORY MADE KNOWN GOOD cord loop it from that port to each CO line input and use that for CO line simulation.

Kinda jumping in late but just some ideas. Is this a regular pots line or off of a FIOS platform? Also I have seen this and a couple of times when Verizon is using something out in the street to give multi dial tone off of one pair. When they do not want to invest in the copper plant they put these devices on the give them 2 dial tones on one pair. I forget what they are called but you see them more and more now that Verizon does not want to install new copper in the street. Hope this helps.

Jim

Nfc I put the voltages in one of my replies. The voltages are fine and the butsett has dialtone on the 66block were the octopus cable is punched down going into the system. Also get dial tone coming out of the fitting that plugs right into the port. Ed there are a ton of co parameters but if I switch a good line into that port it works. Also if I switch numbers at the demarc and run a good number into that same port it will come up. Its not the phone system. There is no way. R.B.F- I would rather be fishing as well!!lol But I dont understand your post 100%. Comdial that is what I think it is. Well not exactly what you described but I think there is something on the lines in this area that is interfering. I know I have had this problem when I have left a toner on a line. Seems like if there is foreign equipment on the line the sbx doesnt like it. If Verizon shows up all they are going to do is clip on before the system and hear dial tone. What do I say then lol!! Fingers crossed we get a good tech!!

X-

Program the last station port as IST. Take a GOOD cord from that port and plug it into CO1. From a digital staion try to pickup line 1. If you get dialtone go to intercom mode on the digital set and dial the IST port. Should ring line 1. Try it on all CO ports, That will eliminate 99.9% of customer PBX issues.

Xcountry,
Seems as though the bottom line is that you have dial tone right up to the end of the mods on all four pairs for all four lines, correct?
Your third line will not produce dial tone (that can be heard) in any of the four co ports, and the other lines do, correct?

ComdialJim is talking about what was called a SLICK Eight. Now called an “AML” “Only two lines on one pair of copper today” but you may not have them. Verizon will only give you a bill if you have dial tone on the 21x with your test set anyway.

Anyway, you tested two KSU’s, and what are the software versions of both?
Make sure you have at least DD. (XAODd) or do an upgrade.

Try
1- One dial tone at a time in all ports
2- Re-initializing the KSU, and check dial tones on first station port with direct line access before programming anything.

Vg

Did both those Hud! Dont recall the software versions atm but both brand new systems. I have a vendor meet tomorrow with verizon. I will post results as soon as I get home!

DING DING DING!!!!!

ComdialJim is the million dollar winner!!!!! Verizon is using "Lightspan" to bring dial tone to that area. Its fiber from the central office to a node were its converted to copper and sent to the dmarc of the site. He tested both new lines and both were being supplied by the lightspan. The other three dialtones were straight copper runs to the central office. So I had him move the first questionable number to copper and boom theres the dial tone. I reported it to Vertical but it didnt seem like they were interested. Either way the job is done and customer is happy!!! Wow what a relief!!!

Yep Jim has always provided good info.

Ahh technology at it's best....

I am thrilled to hear that you found the problem, but it is troubling to hear. About 75% of the new developments in our area are using Lightspan from AT&T. I know that I have some customers that use an XTS and STSe without any issue, but hope that it is addressed soon. I would like to put in more of the SBX, but the voicemail is a little lacking for most customers, and this will create some headaches if not cared for.

CS we are averaging about two sbx installs a week. This is the first time ofcourse we have ran into this but the Verizon tech laughed and said better figure something out soon!! There was another post in this section of someone having same problem. He switched the sbx ksu with an sts ksu and the line worked. So it looks like its just with the sbx.

X:

The telcos are saving money by using any form of dial tone delivery at our expense as installers. Thank you for keeping us posted because there may come a day when we can finally stand up against them in a united (and documented) front. Only then will they start to take us seriously.

Sure, this may be a pipe-dream, but still something that we can hope for.

There is one statement that I'll never forget and it came from Vodavi's former director of technical support: "It's always the telco, no matter what they say". He was right then and his words ring true to this day. Their stuff works when connected to properly-working service.

Thanks again for your persistence and follow-up. You have helped many fellow installers and it is appreciated. I think that most of us here agreed that the issue was with Verizon, but since they feel that they are mightier than God, it is our responsibility to prove their incompetence.

I sure hope that you bill the customer for this issue so that they can submit a complaint and receive a billing credit. Don't be shy.