sundance-communications.com/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Licensing....ASCAP, BMI and Others:

A question concerning using an Ipod as a MOH source is being discussed in the Avaya forum.

While the subject of the topic is about hardware, a sub discussion about obtaining licenses to use music covered by ASCAP, BMI and others has developed.

It was suggested that licensing should be spun off and discussed as a separate topic.

So...here we are!

My feeling on the subject is that existing rules should be followed even though the chances of being caught are very slim.

I've noticed a very different and conservative attitude from East coast techs..I guess it the constant sunshine that gives the west coast techs a more liberal stance.
Well Dexman...you brought it up so let the opinions flow on this issue...
I'll start by saying, paying royalties has seen its day and should disappear.......with XM radio
and many other forms of the medium...the royalty
is covered.
I have never cared about paying royalty licenses.
Nor do I.
As I stated on the other forum..it is ponzi scheme.
BMI and ASCAP should disappear...but its attitudes like yours that keep the fear of getting caught by the compliance police a real
possibilty. I for one DON'T agree with you on
"following the existing rules".
Times have changed and so should the "rules".

It may be the rules should change, but until they do you're putting your customer and yourself at risk.

If my customer wants to use a radio or CD or whatever, I just tell them the consequences and risk than I show them how they would hook up a licensed music source. They want to hook up an unlicensed source that's their call.

dexman only stated his opinion on the matter Dvader, there is no reason to get snippy with his post, after all he was nice enough to start this post I believe per your request so you could address the license issue on MOH.

Personally I feel you should inform your customer and let them decide if they want to take the risk, I mention to them that though it is very unlikely they will ever hear about it there is always a chance.

I'm not opposed to playing moh with a ipod or radio or such but the point I make to customers is MOH with a custom recording is a great marketing tool for a business. For the customers that use a radio station they run the risk of advertising someone else's business while your potential customer is on hold listening to a lower advertised price from the competitor than you just quoted to them. Thats a shot in the foot right there. Also a custom recording and a quality MOH device may run you about the price of an employee's weekly pay,but its going to do it advertising job 24/7/365 with out calling in sick or having to be poked and prodded at to get back to work everyday.

Is an XM / Sirius radio source legal to use? What do you mean by "the royalty is covered" ?

XM/Sirius does offer business subscription for businesses and covers this particular use as a MOH. It's the non-commercial subscription that prohibits you from re-broadcasting it.

XM's website says that the subscription fee for their commercial service covers licensing only if the establishment doesn't charge admission or a membership fee.

It was not my intention to get "snippy" with any
ones point of view...looks to me like there is alot of confusion and mis-infomation on the subject.
Whether a customer chooses to use any music source or go private message is their choice....
I'm referring to the idea that paying entites
like BMI or ASCAP for the right to use music as
a MOH source is what gets to me.
OK...is MOH actually broadcasting the music??you
don't hear until your put on hold...it is not amplified like overhead speakers...so what is
the technical definition of "broadcasting" that
would apply to this issue.
I know that with the Legend/Magix series there is
no way to send music thru the station speakers.
I'm asking anyone who might know where the line
is drawn on this subject.

Saw this post and thought I'd comment.

My personal opinions are right in line with Dvader's. The music licensing model as it currently stands is outdated and archaic.

Licensing could be very simply decided on the percentage of revenue your company makes from the "Public Performance" of the works. i.e. if your company is in the Commercial Tile Business, that percentage would be 0%. Obviously Radio Stations would be the other end at 100%. Likewise, music included in other works of art (movies, documentaries etc.) would be the in the $25-50% range. Keep the bar and restaurant rules as they stand. These are of course rough estimates.

The reason this schema of Licensing/Royalties is not feasible for ASCAP is because they would simply be taking money out of one pocket and putting it into the other. So in that aspect, it is as Dvader puts it a 'Ponzi Scheme' where Small Businesses and New Comers pick up the tab for the boys at the top.

Morally (yes, as in what is right/fair/just) the question a business owner should ask himself is "Am I making any sort of revenue from the use of this music". If so, you must act accordingly.