atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services T1's, CSU's and DSU's Media Converters

Ajkula66,

You are quite correct. The old circuits have the dark gray Adtran cards and the new ones, the light gray. All I know is that when Bell was using Telco and Wesco cards, we could extend T-1s, easily, to 1,500 feet past the demarc without taking errors.

Whynot,

The circuits that worked for over 10 years came to the demarc as HDSL. The new circuits are pure T-1. When all this first started, I mentioned to Cavalier (that's how this whole thing started) they might need to re-engineer the circuits to HDSL and let Verizon condition the circuits to make the hop. Well, that was not in the plan, at all, and since then, we have been trying to make gold out of lead. Now that Cavalier is Paetec, it is much worse. It's almost like they have one person that kind of knows what is going on, but that person is too busy to DO anything about it.

Placing the fiber was an arduous job and, after taking with Transition Networks engineers, I think their T1-E1 MUX is the way to go. I ordered two of them yesterday and expect them to be on site by Wednesday. I have accepted that I will have to eat the cost of the MUXs, but, now it's more a principle thing than anything else.

Here is a bit of knowledge that I gleaned from this train-wreck: The devices to extend, condition and convert T1-E1 media have all but gone away. There are a very few companies still making the devices and those that do can charge anything they want. All the other companies are churning out media converters for ethernet only. The way of the T1-E1 media converter is slowly slipping away. Heck, I worked on N screen and T1 circuits when we had vacuum tube equipment to condition the circuits. Back then, Bell got the circuit to the telephone equipment and it worked. Alas, those days are gone. The Verizon techs today have their hands tied and can only replace cards and do little else. Recently, I had a Verizon tech out to test another T1 circuit and he couldn't get anything to work. His T-berd was working, but he just did not understand why he couldn't see any patterns. After a half hour of watching him do everything he could think of, I finally asked him if he knew he was trying to test the wrong circuit. He looked at me like I had snakes crawling out of my ears. He never thought to look at the smart jack to see if there were any lit indicators.

Rcaman

Rcaman,

If the new circuits are running on light gray cards (H4TUR) they are likely provisioned as HDSL as well. That being said, I'm not keen on any newer Adtran cards, be it 2-wire or 4-wire.

I miss the "old" cards and setups...

People get very limited training these days, and have no desire to go past the norm in most cases, no curiosity to find out what the alternative solution might be...I count myself lucky for having some really great older techs show me stuff in the field, otherwise I'd be deaf, dumb and blind like most of my colleagues choose to be...

Good luck with this project and keep us posted on its progress.

Rcaman, Huh....yea really, your post was concentrating on extending the d-marc and how many mistakes you made during the cut-over not how Peatec didn't listen you telling them how to re-engineer a T1 span.

Ajkula66,

Will do. I should have this under control by Wednesday.

SST,

I left a lot of background out. Several months ago I had a thread open that gives the background and I thought repeating it would be too boring. My initial hope was that some of us here might have some media converters that they would like to sell quickly and I could resolve the problem in a matter of hours instead of days. That not being the case, I will report back the progress after I install the MUXs. To be honest, I don't really think it should be the client's responsibility to get this circuit working. I'm doing it because Paetec has literally given up. That's just not the way telephone people react to a problem. Call me old, but there is still something called ethics and responsibility that is sorely missing with a great many telecommunications companies today.

My comment about Paetec and re-engineering the span comes from experience as this is what I did for Bell when I first started back in 1968.

Rcaman

I'd like to help. Could you restate the issue in simple terms. That is all my wife says I can understand.

Thanks

Is it safe to assume that in your case the Telco demarc is about 1500 feet from the customers equipment? If so, the limit for the length of the extended demarc is about 955, give or take a few feet beyond the smart jack. The power level at the end of the extended demarc cannot be lower then -22dbm to have a chance of working. In HDSL it usually isnt a problem since the power level at the output of the smartjack is around 0dbm and won't lose that much to the extended demarc.

I would not eat anything. Have they asked you to? Tell them you are on a diet.

When we've faced these same circumstances, we use Patton 2115 T1 extender - uses one copper pair and extends 3500 feet. Of course, that assumes that you have a copper pair available...
Mike

For those of you who are awaiting the results, we have been waiting for Transition Networks to ship the units to the local Graybar. It seems that:

a. these are the most popular pieces of equipment Transition makes - or

b. they make them as needed as there was no stock in the US or at the factory.

Yes, the problem is I have 2 T-1s 1,500+ feet from the smart jacks to the customer's Mitel PBX. The carrier is doing nothing to make the circuits work so we have to make a solution to the problem.

I'll give everyone an update as soon as I have them.

Rcaman

A thought. Are you using -021 T1 cards? If so, check the distance settings on them. They 'may' work if you set them for MAX distance, even though the CSU's are close. Also, how about moving the CSU's closer to the d-marc? They are, after all amplifiers as well as signal conditioners.

AND, it is possible that you have MORE than enough level @ the CSU output and are overloading the input to the 021 card. So, try setting the distance switches for CLOSEST.

Of course, if they are not -021's ..........