atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums VOIP Phones & IP PBX Networking Switches for VoIP - suggestions?

Looking for decent switches in a variety of port sizes, but reasonably priced that will support VLan, QoS and PoE. Suggestions?

Adtran or Cisco...
Personally I like the Adtran NetVanta switches.

Linksys (now owned by Cisco) has some really great switches and the new line looks great.

Extreme networks or Adtran NetVanta.

These switches are what I advise to my customers on VOIP networks.

Don't mess with cheap switches. Remember you are running voice and data on a single infrastructure. You essentially have a wire with AT LEAST TWO VLANS on it, it is also carrying -48 VDC on it. My suggestion is to buy Cisco 3560 switches. If you buy something else will it work, yes but Cisco has some significant advantages over other equipment in a enterprise network. Let me go over a couple. First Catalyst (Cisco) switches run VTP which means basically I can configure VLANs in my VTP server (a switch running in VTP server mode) and as long as the the other switches are in the same VTP domain, the VLAN information will propagate to all of the switches in the domain.

Cisco switches run CDP which is the Cisco Discovery Protocol at Layer 2. This protocol allows you to do some cool things such as, view specific information about neighboring Cisco devices in you network. This information consists of the IP address, the IOS version, the capabilities of the device. Here is an example:

BIG_SW> (enable) sh cdp neig detail
Port (Our Port): 3/1
Device-ID: RSM.gregcave.no-ip.org
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 192.168.1.1
Holdtime: 169 sec
Capabilities: ROUTER
Version:
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) C5RSM Software (C5RSM-JK9O3SV-M), Version 12.2(40), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2006 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Thu 12-Oct-06 18:36 by pwade
Platform: cisco RSP2
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): Vlan1
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: unknown
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown
___________________________________________________________________________
Port (Our Port): 4/2
Device-ID: R1
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 10.25.1.1
Holdtime: 160 sec
Capabilities: ROUTER
Version:
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) C2600 Software (C2600-IK9O3S3-M), Version 12.3(22), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc2)
Technical Support: https://www.cisco.com/techsupport
Copyright (c) 1986-2007 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Wed 24-Jan-07 16:48 by ccai
Platform: cisco 2620
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): FastEthernet0/0
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: full
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown
___________________________________________________________________________
Port (Our Port): 4/3
Device-ID: PENN
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 10.1.1.2
Holdtime: 129 sec
Capabilities: ROUTER
Version:
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) C1700 Software (C1700-ADVSECURITYK9-M), Version 12.3(19), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc2)
Technical Support: https://www.cisco.com/techsupport
Copyright (c) 1986-2006 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Thu 11-May-06 21:04 by evmiller
Platform: cisco 1721
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): FastEthernet0
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: full
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown
___________________________________________________________________________
Port (Our Port): 4/5
Device-ID: CCM1.cisco.com
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 192.168.2.50
Holdtime: 165 sec
Capabilities: HOST
Version:
Cisco Discovery Protocol v4.0
Platform: Win2000 Server
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): Eth 1/1
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: unknown
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown
___________________________________________________________________________
Port (Our Port): 4/8
Device-ID: SEP0007501217F1
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 192.168.2.30
Holdtime: 135 sec
Capabilities: HOST PHONE
Version:
P00307010200
Platform: Cisco IP Phone 7960
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): Port 1
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: full
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown
___________________________________________________________________________
Port (Our Port): 4/18
Device-ID: CaveLab
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 192.168.1.200
Holdtime: 139 sec
Capabilities: ROUTER
Version:
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) 2500 Software (C2500-I-L), Version 12.0(17a), RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
Copyright (c) 1986-2002 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Mon 11-Feb-02 05:55 by kellythw
Platform: cisco 2509
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): Ethernet0
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: unknown
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown
___________________________________________________________________________
Port (Our Port): 5/6
Device-ID: R2
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 10.1.3.1
Holdtime: 125 sec
Capabilities: ROUTER
Version:
Cisco Internetwork Operating System Software
IOS (tm) C2600 Software (C2600-D-M), Version 12.2(2)T, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc1)
TAC Support: https://www.cisco.com/cgi-bin/ibld/view.pl?i=support
Copyright (c) 1986-2001 by cisco Systems, Inc.
Compiled Sat 02-Jun-01 16:20 by ccai
Platform: cisco 2610
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): Ethernet0/0
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: half
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown

This is great information for troubleshooting. Other things CDP is used for is AutoQoS at L2. I can tell my switch to trust IP Phones and the switch will perform QoS at L2. There are a several manufactures outside of Cisco that run CDP. As I showed you here is an Cisco 7960 IP phone from my lab CDP discovered.

Port (Our Port): 4/8
Device-ID: SEP0007501217F1
Device Addresses:
IP Address: 192.168.2.30
Holdtime: 135 sec
Capabilities: HOST PHONE
Version:
P00307010200
Platform: Cisco IP Phone 7960
Port-ID (Port on Neighbors's Device): Port 1
VTP Management Domain: unknown
Native VLAN: unknown
Duplex: full
System Name: unknown
System Object ID: unknown
Management Addresses: unknown
Physical Location: unknown

I do not know of any low end switches that do this stuff.

Greg

Thanks for all of the detail, Greg. I appreciate your info!

You know I hate to restate the obvious but Linksys is owned by Cisco and they are making a good switch. The difference between the Linksys switches and the cisco switches is that i dont have to throw all the specs at you and convince you to buy them because quite simply they work. They work very well and QOS is there for voip. The only difference is price points and you as the installer do not have to 23 acronyms listed behind your name to install them. Sorry to be so blunt by I am an old country boy and if I can buy a 3 tine pitch fork for less then a 4 tine pitch fork and still pitch the same amount of hay?????

based on past experience tex, I tend to agree! What is the new line you spoke of?

The whole works. They have revamped the look of the switches and are now providing POE switches. These are professional looking boxes.
Check out this news clip.
https://www.crn.com/storage/197008515

Ok let me ask you this, on a Linksys switch how can you tell which port is causing a broadcast storm cased by a faulty NIC? On a Linksys switch how do you create VLANs on one switch and allow that information to propagate the switch fabric without configuring every switch (assuming that it is managed). On a Linksys switch how can configure specific ports to specific MAC addresses so that only selected users can gain access? On a Linksys switch how do log specific events to a central server (SYSLOG) to allow you to quickly troubleshoot significant events? As you stated how do you set QoS on a Linksys switch? How do you configure AAA on a Linksys switch? What about spanning tree?

I have no problem with Linksys equipment per se, it is what it is. Cheap stuff for mainly home use that has very limited capability with a good price. Unfortunately you are buying equipment that is going to run your business and time is money. When your pitch fork breaks it does not shut down the farm. Low end hardware is simply inadequate for enterprise operation. I believe if you go to Linksys's site they would be the first to confirm this.

gcave
did u check out the link and how much of the new stuff have u used? Systems are getting cheaper because manufacturing is getting cheaper. Hell I bought a Buffalo 2G backup drive today for less then I paid for my first 33M computer. Less expensive don't mean cheap. Why do you think cisco bought Linksys?
"Cheap stuff for mainly home use that has very limited capability with a good price. Unfortunately you are buying equipment that is going to run your business and time is money."
Got some news for you... most of us on this forum are small to medium sized business and from what I have gathered most of our customers are the same. we all have to balance quality and cost and that is why I brought up Linksys.
Face it Cisco is not set up for my customer or me to quickly troubleshoot anything! It is set up for the user to be significantly overcharged by someone who can discern the "cisco jargon" to fix a problem that shouldnt exist.
By the way I already posted the link to the new Linksys, check it out and them ask ????
To everyone else take a look and talk to your rep.
this is some pretty good stuff/

p.s. gcave
I spent alot of time in WV. Morgantown to be more specific so don't get too mad at me. :toast:

We prefer the Adtran NetVanta. We use them for 99% of our applications. Reliable and cheeper than Cisco.

It all depends on the situation. Even the Linksys SGE2000P, which runs between $800-$900, is not going to be "reasonably priced" to the typical small business owner. It is, however, a far cry from the consumer grade junk with the blue cases.

We use HP Procurve gear where the situation warrants. Not cheap, but rock solid with a lifetime warranty. Also have used Adtran and Cisco. All three make great products.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Gcave. We understand that you will not use anything but cisco. However this is a forum for discussion/Information. Not for bashing.

I personally do not like to use cisco unless it is needed. Which in most cases it is not.

I am not going to get into an agrument over weather cisco is better than the other manufactures. It would be long and not very productive on your part or mine. All I will say is that every manufactur has its place. Cisco, Extreme Networks, Adtran, Netgear, HP, Etc. All are good manufactures with different plus's and minus's. It is all a mater of what people are capable or prefer to support. I am able to support most. Including cisco. Lets just leave it at that and not clutter up the forum with remarks. Without information this forum is not good for anyone. Your post previously that state your reasoning for using cisco was very informative. But you have to let people make there own decision's. All you can do is give the information and answer any questions that may come up.

Brian

I am sorry I did a poor job explaining my observations. I share the same opinion that all equipment has its place for specific application. My goal was never to belittle anyone but share my experiences. I can see I have ruffled feathers and I do apologize for that, it was NOT my intent.

We use HP Procurve in most cases. They are solid and I have never had to replace one. The Adtran NetVanta series is also a good product. Ive never worked with the Extreme Networks switches. The problem I find with Cisco is that you have to learn their propriatary command line language to do any in-depth programming on them. I shy away from Linksys as I have had a lot of problems with them in high network traffic cases. This is definately going to be the case with VOIP and data on the same network.

I hear you Cracker. HP Procurve is a good product. Used it several times with great results.

The Extreme networks switches are also a great product. If you have never used one you might give them a try sometime.

I would strongly recommend going straight up to cisco switches over the linksys products.. a bit more expensive, but for future usage, they are far more robust and upgradeable (although cisco does offer a trade-up program from linksys to cisco

I've used both, but I prefer cisco by far.. Although I may be biased, considering I am a Cisco CCNA

I would go with the following:
Cisco 3750 or
Adtran 1224STR

The key is to go with a L3 switch as you will definitely want to VLAN your voice and data. A L3 switch will alow you to route between VLANs without an external router (and it will be faster). You can also run DHCP server from the L3 switch for each vlan independently.
The cisco is by far superior and I would highly recommend it. The Adtran is a good cost effective switch as well but lacks true stacking capabilities. With the Cisco mid grade line you can stack them with a stack cable allowing higher b/w throughput through the stacking cable rather than just crossover type scenario from Adtran to Adtran.

Good call, Chris! I agree- The 3750 series would be Ideal for this application! L3 is critical in this type of setup... well worth the extra cash to go for the 3750

We have been using Netgear FSM7326P 24 port POE switches for our VOIP deployments lately. They are a Layer 3 Fully managed switch. They also have a CLI interface if thats what floats your boat. You can have the switch configured and QOS setup in less than half an hour.

They are about half the price of the Cisco equivalent.