atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Convergent systems

Hello,
I've just registered, but I've been reading this board for some time now, and maybe you can help me with a question. Mainly, the practice of installing different types of cable and jacks for voice and data. I'm not knocking this, I just don't understand why. From my point of view, as contractors, we install a transmission medium, whether it's Cat3,5,5e, 6, I don't care. To that medium, devices are attached, thay can be: analog phones, digital phones, pc's, data switches, routers, phone switches, fax machines, IP cameras, whatever you want. The logical solution, to me, would be to install a uniform horizontal cabling plant independant of the devices attached. Thus providing the customer with the most flexability and ease of maintenance for the money. Can we, as VDV contractors, be sure what our customers future needs will be? I don't think so. I have had 3 jobs in the past 4 months were I was adding drops even before the original bid job was finished. Just my 2 cents, I look forward to your comments.

-Al

TIA/EIA specs out 4 drops per outlet. All terminated on 568a/b. If you term 3 of those on a PP and 1 on telco 66 or 110, then you would have a very flexible cable plant. Of course, getting the customer to pay for that much plant is another issue.

We have installed Structured Cabling (ie. using UTP Cat.5E for both Data & Voice with patch panels) in many sites. IMHO the major factors for the customer wanting Structured cabling is -(a) they want the flexibility of interchanging Voice & Data points (2) they have the money to spend and (3) they will be occupying or renting the premises for quite some time (or combination of all 3 factors.

Majority of users still prefer the traditional way ie. UTP Cat.5E or 6 for Data & Tel cable 2 pair for Voice for obvious cost savings reasons.

However I think the trend will be towards the Structured cabling direction as more IP devices come on stream & their cost comes down eg. IP PABX & IP cameras.

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https://www.cablemaster.com.sg

I'm a firm believer in pulling cat 5e or cat 6 and using it for both data and phone. The price difference is only in the hundreds of dollars, which the customers will gain back with not have as much MAC work later. The only fall back is that the phone and data equipment have to be in the same room and some what close in proximity.
Its more flexable and with everything going IP- its the smart thing to do.

Well first off I have to ask what background you are coming from, is it IT or telecom?

Sounds like IT because you need to realize that telephone and data are two different animals. There may not be a problem if everything is handled by an IT department but they are handled by different people in most smaller companies and here is where "politics" get involved.

I'm a telecom guy and I would never want to mess with somebodies network or patch panels when I go about my work and I wouldn't want the computer guy to mess with my stuff either.

When either of these things happen it only results in finger pointing and unnecessary service call charges. I have even gone so far as to install data and voice on separate wall plates when I had a computer guy play around with the data jacks and screw up the voice jacks on the same plate.

Voice and data are two different configurations also unless you are using IP. We want our cables (CAT3!) punched down on blocks so we can cross connect individual pairs as necessary. Data wiring and patch panels assume that a cable will be used for no other purpose than a particular jack so adding a jack at an existing location for another phone, fax or modem is a big problem.

-Hal

I'm a firm believer in pulling cat 5e or cat 6 and using it for both data and phone. The price difference is only in the hundreds of dollars...

Checked prices lately? CAT5e plenum is THREE times the cost of CAT3 plenum.

Maybe it's a few hundred dollars if you are only pulling a couple of runs...

-Hal

I don't know where you are getting your Cat 5e but I know my cost is only $20 to $30 difference per box between C5 and C3 and that is in Canadian dollars!

Is it plenum rated? That would be the price difference between CAT3 and CAT5e riser.

-Hal

[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited July 13, 2005).]

I was the telecom guy for my company when we took on a new install of additional office space in an offsite building. The company network engineer was a guy I could work with, I usually pulled cat 5 for him & he terminated it, and I set up T1's and CSU/DSU's for him to plug his junk into.

The project manager on this particular deal was in waaaay over her head, and was always running to us for any scraps of information we could toss her. We ended up with 4 cat5 drops to each desk patchable either to phone or data, a nice big phone/data closet with double doors, plenty of light and air and enough room for a 3 cabinet Mitel SX-2000, plus all of network dude's junk, enough room for the both of us to work in there, and best of all...

Jacks were installed at eye-level, 'cause we figured we were both too damn old to be crawling around under desks.

jsaxe