sundance-communications.com/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Conduit

Yeah, no 1/2 inch on this job. I thought about raceway, customer doesn't want to see anything, period. Conduit will be boxed in later, but specs will call for future access to pull boxes. Anyone know price of 3" condiuit vs. raceway, just out of curiosity?
Once an electrician is selected for the job, I'm sure we can plan an installation to reduce the number of pull boxes.


Vern

am I correct that the NEC dosnt address this and the Guide is just a suggestion .

I have a job , new construcion where the electrcian has provided 1 1" conduit to feed 7 floor boxs (stub in ceiling then from box to box )

I planned two cat5e 4 pair per box so I would be pulling 14 cables thru a 1" conduit (of course the cable number would drop at each box.)

so this is not a code issue but rather a standards issue ?

I cut 14 1' pieces of cat5e cable and it does squeeze thru 1" conduit

Correct. The BICSI and TIA/EIA standards are derived from the NEC requirements for conduit fill, but the NEC itself does not apply.

TIA borrowed from the NEC, and then BICSI referenced the TIA standard. Sort of a case of "If it's good enough for NFPA, it's good enough for us."

To be "Standards Compliant", you'd need a 1.5" conduit, but in the end, that's just a guideline.


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-Steve

thanks steve, thats what I figured. electrcian isnt likley to cut up the floor to give me more conduit.

GC told her he pulled one condit for voice and one for data , when I was at the site yesterday he kept insisting same to me untill I asked him to show me .

I'm going to suggest that we split the voice and pull 7 data and 5 voice so we will only have 12 to pull. (need two pair for voice so I will have 20 pair and I need 14 )

customer is a prety tough negtioator so I will explain to her that its not standards compliant and let her harass the electrcian from that angle.

Why can't the electrcians and architects understand that we need a conduit for every floor box? Or at least a bigger pipe?

We had the same problem a few months ago on a big medical office. The customer had 4 nurses stations that had to be fed by a conduit in the floor. The EC gave us one 3/4" conduit for 4 Cat 3 phone, 4 Cat 5 Network and 2 Nurse Call wires.

We managed to get 10 wires through, but it wasn't easy. I hope nothing ever goes bad and they can never add any more cables.

well thats what power poles are for

the last bldg this cust built called for conduit in the floor to 4 sales stations (its a furn store)

I went in to look at the job and I said there is no conduit , she calls the GC he says yes there is , I go bck no theres not . he says yes there is so we do a meet .

no theres not.

she gave the gc the choice of digging up the floor and putting them in(as per the plans ) or he could pay my bill for cabling the whole bldg

he paid my bill

one of my favorite topics:

thanks for the chart it will save alot of time listening to everybody chime in and i hate those discussions.

don't forget when your done telling mr/ms electrician how the world is to be created that you want a pull string installed by them also (it drives them nuts)

we are about to start another large job with the same cast of characters: same gc, same camera and alarm guys, and the same kiss of death electrician. my contract for the new gig states exactly what the client will ensure the electrician does. at our first meeting i handed a typed out copy of the specs for the electrican to the gc, client and the wonderful electrician. we shall see ?

on the last gig everybody in the lv world had conduits supplied by him. each conduit had a magic marker triangle on it and that was it. it took days to fish everything. we went first and by the process of elimination
found our conduits.

i hope this is not "here we go again" for round 2.

[This message has been edited by tickets (edited September 12, 2005).]

Current cabling standards required a pull box every 100' with no more than two 90 degree bends (or a total of 180 degrees, ie. 4 x 45 degree, etc.) between.

CC

Also, you must really keep in mind bend radius requirements when considering conduit size.. it is not in the straight runs that you have to worry, it is in the transitions... even inside a pull box... you can downgrade the performance of a Category 5e or 6 cable to CAT 3 in a heart beat if you exceed the recommended bend raduis throughout your cable plant.

The suggestions about 'lube' are right on as well.. friction build up is huge in conduits... the 60% rule is just an old journeman's standard becuase he has had to go back and 'add' cable to existing conduits before.... and never had enought lube to get the fish tape through, much less to get the cable pulled in... plan on getting at least one size conduit bigger than your cable fill will need... in spite of the cost...

Craig:

To what standard are you referring when you mention the current standards in your previous posts? NEC, which is all that electricians installing conduit must follow states that no more than 360 total degrees of condit bends (4-90 degree bends) per run be maintained before a pull box be installed. NEC doesn't really state there's any "length per run" limitation. Are you referring to some local code requirement in your jurisdiction?

While EIA/TIA preferences may be something we are expected to follow, we have to live with what the electrical contractors installing the conduits must follow, which is NEC or local codes.

Electrical people, and the codes they follow, don't apply or adhere to standards that we should follow. We will never get these people to address and understand the needs that our wiring systems require. We just have to be happy with the conduits we get and make them work as best we can. Electricians are confident that they can "yank" as many cables as necessary through a conduit, so when we question it, we are immediately deemed less-competent.

We are the step-children on the jobsite. Sure, the local telco can "force" the GC to provide two 4" conduits to access their facilities (and they always get them even if for only a single 25-pair feeder cable), but once it's inside the building, what the architect gave us is what we get. Get used to it; it's been that way for 20+ years. The "inside wiring guy" gets whatever the budget will allow.