sundance-communications.com/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Should CAT 5 data terminate on a shared 66 block with a phone system ?

Hello.

The builder of house has most walls wired with CAT 5 however no Ethernet Jack.

The few places that do have a CAT 5 Ethernet Jack terminates in the phone room on the same 66 punch block as the phone system. This was done by the builder or someone he contracted with.

Can you tell me if this is normal to have CAT 5 cable intended for data to terminate on a 66 punch down phone block shared with a phone system? Will this create impedance, Interference, Cross talk or other problems with the data transfer?

I was always under the impression that data should terminate at a 110 patch panel not a 66 punch down block shared with a phone system.

To make matters worse, there are some rooms that only have 1 CAT5 cable for both phone and data.

Please let me know if this is a serious problem or if you had any ideas on how the proper way to do in this type of situation?

Thanks for your help.

This has been discussed many times. Termination to a 66 block is fine and the builder got what he paid for! The fact that you're asking the question tells me you already know the answer. Voice and data in a single pipe is NOT an excepted practice but it will work.

no ethernet shouldn't punch down to a 66 block it ought to go to a patch panel .

how would you go from the 66 block to he switch ?

punched down patch cord ?

I would have to disagree that terminating a ethrnet cable to a 66 block is "fine "

evan a "shared cable ought to have the Ethernet portion terminating to patch panel with the voice pairs removed

Not that this is the way it should be done. You could take some CAT 5 put a mod end on it and go from your 66 block to your hub/router. Or if you insist on a patch panel take some CAT 5 from the 66 block to the patch panel. I think patch panels are way over priced and over rated for small jobs, just another connection to go bad. Most 66 blocks are CAT5 rated. Don't punch down a patch cord, 66 blocks are not designed for stranded wire.

If I read your question I think you are saying that it is the 66 block that is shared, not the CAT5 cables. If that is the case pull the data cables off, install a patch panel and re-terminate them on it.

No way should voice and data share the same block. No way should they share the same cable.

Since this is obviously a hack job I would open every jack to verify how the cable was terminated on it. Don't be surprised at what you may find.

-Hal

Contrary to others, a 66 block is more than capable of being used for data. Assuming they are using a Cat 5e 66 block. It is fully capable of supporting up to gigabit ethernet, which I'm sure is more than what someone in a house will be running. In general everyone prefers to use patch panels for the ease of use.
Sharing the same cable for both Voice and Data may not be the best idea however. On the same block will cause no problems.

No, I never said that 66 blocks didn't support CAT5e. It's just never a good idea to have voice and data on the same block because of confusion and possible miswiring it could cause. Ring voltage on an NIC will fry it.

Voice on a 66 block and data on a patch panel eliminates confusion and makes connection to the respective equipment what it should be.

-Hal

I use patch panels when needed, but I do think they are over used. A small business that once the network is up and running and never changes doesn't need a patch panel, it's over kill. Personally I'd just run from the jack to the hub and put a mod end at the hub, with a good slack loop so if ever needed it could be terminated in a patch panel. I'm talking 8-10 or less, with no activity expected after things are up. I have seen 24 and 48 port patch panels in offices that have 2 or 3 network cables, stupid and expensive. At least put in a small 12 port. This is the way I do it, not saying your wrong for using the patch panels, but I do think you're causing excess cost to your customers if they are not needed. I do agree that data and voice shouldn't share the same block and that goes for sharing the same panel and jack type also.

Personally I'd just run from the jack to the hub and put a mod end at the hub...

Exactly, I do that all the time too. Fine for smaller installations that don't change and saves the cost of the patch panel.

-Hal

I do know that using only 2 pairs(Orange and Green) for data and using 2 pairs for voice(blue and brown) can work(but not recommended this way)

However, this question was if they could both be terminated in a 66 block shared with a phone system.

I was concern there was issues interference caused by the phone system on the 66 block if perhaps the 66 block was design for voice.

There have been times when using a tone generator on a phone line that I could detect small amount of the tone on close by wires(other than the one I was toning).

I was thinking that the phone system's 66 block does not isolate the connect well enough however and it might be better to try to disconnect the wires I was either

1.Removing the lines from the 66 block than connect the 2 pairs to a RJ45 jack than connect a cable to the switch(bypassing the 66 block) or

2. I could use the 66 Block and connect a cable down to the switch.

If there are no issues with using the 66 block, maybe the second option would be ok?

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks

If this is personal residential use, leave it on the block and label it well, interference will not be better or worse by leaving it on the block. Odds are if you split the wiring it will never be changed, put in a 2 receptacle jack plate and use a 2,4,or 6 pin jack for the phone and 8 pin for the network, that should eliminate the confusion, I'd even use a unique color for your network. Best is if the wiring can be corrected, correct it.

In this situation, if I had to deal with one Cat-5 cable per location, and needed to split them for voice and data, I would use a patch panel. Punch the Blue and Brown pairs on the odd numbered ports to create a 2-pair USOC configuration, and match the jack at the station end. Then punch the Orange and Green pairs to the even numbered ports for a 10Base-T configuration, again matching it at the station end. This would let you have a network and a phone system using patch cords.

It is certainly not the way it should have been done. The builder didn't do you any favors, but you can make do with what you have.

The ultimate solution would be to repull the cables and terminate properly, voice on blocks and data on a patch panel.

For some small home networks (3-5 cables) where the customer did not want to pay for a patch panel I have installed cat5e jacks on both ends of the cables and label them. It works out great because it provides a test point and it allows the home owner to be able to "kill" an outlet if they ever want to, such as in the kids room if they don't want them on the net for some reason.

If you have to split the pairs (I hate doing that but I've had to in the past) it could be done at the jacks and would be a lot easier to work with.

But of course you would spend more money than the cost of a panel on larger networks so you have to draw the line somewhere.

In those situations, I like the Leviton blank 12-port keystone plate (part #5G596-U89). Snaps right into an 89D bracket. Cleans things up nicely and as long as you're only installing a couple of lines, the total cost (frame + jacks) will be a fraction of a patch panel & wall bracket.

You would still need a patch cable and create an extra connection. Although I much prefer that over someone putting in a 24 port panel on a small job, I just don't think it's needed on a small network that is not going to be doing any active changing after installed. Again, not saying it's wrong just that it's over kill for a small network.

I don't like to put RJ45 (8P8C) ends on building cable. It looks sloppy.

What I do is to get a surface-mount single gang box and the appropriate Leviton wallplate with the appropriate number of holes and the appropriate number of Cat5E jacks.

This works for anywhere from 1 to 6 drops, and looks much neater.

Doesn't look any different than a patch cable plugged into a hub. Everyone has a preferred method and there is nothing wrong with yours for small jobs.
Bill

It is really discouraging to hear that a customer is not willing to pay for a 12 port patch panel that will last the life of the building, but spends the same money on one tire or car battery that is good for a few years.
Siemens does make adaptors that will pin out an RJ 14 and Ethernet from a cat 5 jack , but you will need one at each end of the link. You can also buy a mod-adaptor the fits on the 66 block and provides the cat 5 female connection. By the time you put this all together, you have spent more $$ than you would have to do it right in the first place. It does work for a sacrifice single.

Siemon Company is the manufacturer. I am in agreement here in all other aspects though.

If the customer was unwilling to pay for a patch panel and 19" swingaway mount I would either put RJ45 ends on the station cable or depending on number of drops use a surface mount box with jacks. Then patch into switch/router. All 3 ways work. I wouldn't use 66 blocks for data.

I would lean toward what 1A2 has said. Take off the data wiring and terminate it on a 12 port patch panel. Although the 66 block will work fine, the preferred way is the patch panel. If we keep making accuses and reasons to wire and terminating cable anyway but the preferred way, then it gets easier and easier to find reasons not to run and terminate cable the proper way.

marc

why give the customer the option ?

my quote is $xxx.xx

but if you want it half azzed I can do it for you for $xx.95


quote what it will take to do the job correctly if they wont pay move on to someone who will

Skip :toast:

I think we're all forgetting that there is only ONE cat-5 cable to each location, to support voice AND data. So crimp-on plugs isn't goint to get it, a 12 port patch panel isn't going to get it.

You're going to need to split the pairs out for the 2 services. You could leave it on the 66 block and run a 10Base-T jumper to 2 of the pairs and voice to the other 2 pairs, put it on a patch panel by splitting out the pairs, or use the Seimon adapters at each end if you terminate 568 at each end.

only some rooms have one so I would assume most rooms have two

I agree if you want something done right get someone who knows what they are doing to do it right the first time. I answered this earlier if an electrician or general contractor do the wiring remember you get what you pay for.

I hope you read this because I run into this occasioinally When a customer doesnt want to take my advice I have them sign a work order that states that what reccomended and that the customer refused my advise then when something gets hosed you can back charge him because you have the paper with his signature