sundance-communications.com/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring genius of the day...

-8 lol must be nice !!! try fixing a cast iron payphone with a -50 North Wind with blowing snow.

I know BC Canada has low voltage/high voltage regs in place to keep both these types of cables/lines separate. But what if you are forced to lay or that is, cross over one cable to the other? I usally create a "JUMP over loop" just to keep them separate.

I see so much crap wiring that it is just more then discussing. I should have snapped photos of one site that had half of the data/power DSL box sitting on top of the Fuel controller for a service station. I did take a picture of it, but covered up half the crap with a ID sheet with printed work order, job site on it so the project manager would not say "what is all that crap wiring next to the RM-10?

Anyway, I cleaned up some of cable mess to keep it away from my fuel controller. I will show a pic of what one looks like in the installed wiring forum. Pretty simple setup.

I know BC Canada has low voltage/high voltage regs in place to keep both these types of cables/lines separate.

I would double check that if I were you because I seriously doubt it. Your Code is very similar to the NEC here in the states and there is nothing that addresses separation of data, communications, CATV or any low voltage wiring for that matter from building wiring used for power and light. That's because there is no reason to although some geeks will have a different opinion. Run 'em through the same holes and in the same bundle if you want. Never been a problem today or for 40 years.

-Hal

I've had to trace data cables that had so much AC hum on them I could hardly hear my tone generator. I labeled the jack, patched it in and no complaints after months in service.

Yup. Happens every day.

-Hal

What kind of nonsense is this??????? The NEC does state in 800 that there needs to be a minimum of 2" of separation between communication and power cables. The NEC mainly addresses safety concerns and this is to prevent a shock hazard if there's a short between the communication cables and the high voltage cables. As far as standards we as "professionals" then refer to the TIA/EIA and BICSI guides which are concerned with cabling performance. You HAVE to follow the NEC code and its recommended to abide by TIA/EIA standards. If your not then your doing shoddy work. How can you jump down the throats of people about doing things "right" and then spew this load of garbage????????

The NEC does state in 800 that there needs to be a minimum of 2" of separation between communication and power cables.

The service drops on the outside of the building. You're preaching to the choir here.

BICSI-You either love it or hate it. I see little purpose to it other than to fill a void where there is no other written standard. Compliance with it is completely voluntary, it has no legal standing. Architects love it because a simple cut-and-paste makes them look like experts. In my opinion it adds unnecessary expense to a project. From my example above, why would I need to pay an RCDD a salary?

And like Ed said, it's all probably going to be ripped out within 5 years anyway.

-Hal

No, it covers from the primary protector or point of entrance all the way to the internal equipment. A communications circuit is defined as extending all the way to the equipment such as a fax or phone. I'm reading the 2011 NEC. This is pretty standard stuff I thought?????

You see little purpose for BICSI? I don't understand how an organization that's trying to promote solid practices and a standard way of doing things is a bad thing? You would pay an RCDD so that you have properly designed structured cabling systems that adhere to industry standards. It is because of BICSI that we are no longer on the back burner of cabling projects. We now have our own Division, and structured cabling is an important part of the design process and no longer just an afterthought.

Hal,

I have been brought in to several jobs (commercial and large residential) where the (choose one)...LAN, automation, theater, whole-house audio...wasn't working. Discovered that Sparky had run the Cat5's right along the same routes as the 110/220 wires.

I re-routed the low-voltage wiring and everything linked up, and behaved itself. No more hum, no spurious activations of HVAC or music systems which had plagued the customers, no more lost packets or data in the network.

The problems especially present themselves when the 110/220 wiring is feeding motors. I have had to re-trench the (grounded and bonded) buried 6-pair service wires feeding automatic gate controllers, when they had been originally buried right along with the 220 feeds for the gate hydraulic motors. The symptom was gates swinging open/closed with a mind of their own. The EMF pulse from the motors would cross into the control wiring and activate the gates.

From these anecdotal experiences, I try to keep all my wires away from Sparky's whenever I can.

It may not be code, or science, but it works for me.

Arthur has what so many who come to this board don't have..........experience. :thumb:

BICSI is NOT the last word in this trade...or profession. Trade is the term when a man gets his hands dirty doing it correctly while profession is the term used by the "suits" who need a reference so they can charge out the kazoo!

BICSI is a bastardized version of multiple former national services companies....Bell, GTE, even REA practices, just to name of few.

BICSI is there but the NEC has more real info on telelphony where BICSI has started drifting to the "dark side" of the computer world as that is truly their customers....those who can't dial a real telephone little alone program a true system.

So, listen to all the "Arthurs" out there and study your BICSI books so you can take a fancy, expensive vacation for their meetings....maybe someday you will become the "Arthur" of your group.

'Nuff said.....