sundance-communications.com/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Cabling Telephones Systems Wiring Cat6 Cable Quality

I am an engineering software company owner www.elitesoft.com and I am in the process of finishing out our new 4800 sf office building. I have an old, but full featured AT&T Partner II phone system that is still working perfectly and I plan to reuse this system in the new office. Over the year with various office moves, my staff and I have come to understand this system very well in terms of installation, programming, and everyday use.

Although 31 years old, my company is still small with just five employees at the moment. Have had as many as ten full time workers so the building is being built for growth potential and large storage.

Based on what I have read in this forum, I am planning to use two Cat6 drops per station in the new office, one for data and one for voice. On the voice side the Cat6 cables will all be unaltered so that VoIP can be easily implemented later if we should ever choose to go that route.

I am thinking that our entire new office system can be implemented with various lengths of "off the shelf" patch cables. I am amazed at how cheap Cat6 cable is nowadays. I just bought a 200' Cat6 cable for $16.99 with free shipping as seen here on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/160725294268?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I realize that a chineese made drill from Harbor Freight for $13 is nothing like the same size drill made by Rigid for example. But on these cable products, what I get from various chicom companies always seems to be good quality and identical to what one would purchase from BestBuy for example. I have successfully used these cheap cables for years with no apparent problems.

For your own use and where a cable can be replaced easily if need be, what do you guys think of using these low cost cables bought directly from importers?

Basically, you get what you pay for.

Patch cables are not recommended for permanent use. Again, you get what you pay for.

I would never use Chinese crap.

...my company is still small with just five employees at the moment. Have had as many as ten full time workers.

Ever consider that part of the reason your company is half what it used to be might be because the US offshores most of it's production? And you still want to support China by purchasing their products?

Besides that hire a company to do your wiring. Only amateurs use those long patch cords to wire offices.

-Hal

I don't really agree much with your whole theory of design---but it's your office and your labor and your equipment. What you're doing has no real comparison to what cable installers do. In my opinion, it's a way of putting in communication cable that has nothing to do with professional specs of any kind. However, it will probably work---so go for it, I guess. :confused:

Would you have your electrician install a 200-amp service panel, and then tell him to take a hike, while you run "amazingly" inexpensive extension cords from China all around the office, to avoid having recepticals?

There are standards for what we contractors do for a living. The standards are clear, concise, well-thought out and unambiguous. Why do you want to do our job, and do it wrong?

Just wondering.

As jwracedog said, the network and cabling design approach using long patch cords works fine. It is done in countless small offices around the world with great success. I guess you can call it amateurish, but it sure is easy, low cost, and from my 31 years experience in business, plenty reliable with sufficient performance. Why spend more when you don't have to? That philosophy has kept my business alive through thick and thin with plenty of built-up reserves and many promising years ahead. I guess I am selfish, but keeping my business alive and the jobs it gives others is more important than always buying American.

Over the years, I have never paid as low of price for patch cords as what can be found now. I wrote here mainly to see if my past good luck with these cheap long patch cords for permanent office wiring is unusual or whether others routinely see problems with them. Or maybe with certification testing, others find that their bandwidth is poor even if they are reliable.

I want to spend as little as I have to achieve just the right level of quality. These new low prices are so low that they make me wonder whether I need to buy better, even though my anecdotal experience has been excellent with them so far.

I guess I should have predicted the responses I got here which is to basically buy the most expensive Cat6 cable on the market and to only have it installed by outside professionals, costs be damned.

Sorry I bothered you guys with this. I have learned a great deal from you all. This forum helped me make my decision to keep my old AT&T Partner II phone system, but also run two Cat6 drops per station with no mods on the voice Cat6 cable so that VoIP can be easily implemented later if needed. So if you don't mind, I would still like to read what you all have to say, but its probably best that I go back to lurking.
Thanks, Bill

Kinda like asking a doctor if you can use a scalpel set off eBay to take your friends apendix out.

... its probably best that I go back to lurking.

That's about the only thing you said in this whole thread that makes any sense.

-Hal

why are you worrying about trying to use cat6 for an office? even 10/100 should be reasonable enough for a standard office.

Personally I would get a good quality UL listed cat5 cable, and have it installed neatly and properly.

As has been repeated many times on this forum, cat6 costs so little extra it becomes a question of "why not use cat6?" Heck, I am still going strong and its quite possible my office will one day have a 10 gig server.

As an engineering software company owner, myself and all my programmers are degreed engineers with good hands on skills. In over 31 years of owning a business, I have never needed to hire an outside electrician or cable installer.

We had a guy come in and buy 1000' of bulk silver satin Hebase cordage. Do you get where this is going :-)

He couldn't "afford" to pay an installer to run real cable and put in jacks for his Panasonic 1232 system, so he just ran flat cord through the ceiling and crimped plugs on each end.


That was about 24 years ago. I don't know how it worked for him, because he's been out of business for at least 20 years.

Carl

1) Does your insurance company know that you're doing your own electrical work?

2) Do you really think they won't investigate before paying any claim for fire?

3) Are those 5 employees prepared to be out of work when your building goes up in smoke, possibly forever losing their job with you if the insurance doesn't pay the claim and you go out of business because you're too cheap to hire a pro?

Being a cheapskate usually will come back to bite you in the arse sooner or later.

If you had no intentions to listen to our advice, then why post your questions and concerns in the 1st place?

Those cheap cables probably aren't even copper.

Keep in mind also that it is an electrical code violation to run cords in walls and ceilings. Most patch cords do not have a type CMR rating and none have a CMP rating. If you run these in a plenum ceiling space, you are committing a serious safety breach.

If you're doing a full office build out, your installation will never pass an electrical inspection. You'd have to go in after the certificate of occupancy has been issued and install the wiring after the fact. Again, this is dangerous and illegal.

good thing for you your customers dont subscribe to that philosophy

I'm guessing he does not care about electrical inspection since "In over 31 years of owning a business, I have never needed to hire an outside electrician or cable installer. "

We're going in circles here so I'm going to lock this topic. Might save the OP from getting further bloodied.

bsmith: These are really a bunch of good helpful people. When you come to a professional site and ask how to do the job unprofessionally you about have to expect these type responses. Just grow some thick skin and ask away.