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I've read all of this through twice and I think if you had lead off your initial post with "Hay guys, I'm jumping into hosted VOIP and here's how it is going for me" the responses would have been different. It is almost like you had the answers to your questions before you asked them. I would like to know more about it because the CLECs are starting to show up with this stuff in my area. The only hosted system I have been up against so far cost $5100.00 for the customer premiss equipment. The vendor also priced out an Avaya ACS for $5,100.00 as well so that's my only experience with this (8 phones and voice mail). Many of us have been the first ones out the door with leading edge stuff and have learned the hard way to let someone else go out the door first next time. Maybe you can keep us all up to speed on this as you progress. I assume you are only selling hosted systems now.
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I have a stupid stupid question bbarnes...if you already know all the answers why are you asking the questions? Is this some new adverstisement technique? I have YET to see an all IP system outperform a hybrid. The backend costs are the meat and potatoes of all the IP systems today. Think about this...all of Cisco's first generation IP systems are dumpster food now. Not only that but how are the systems they have today going to supply power over ethernet on a gig network...thats right chaching$$$$....or when the IP structure changes in the next few years. chaching...$$$$
[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]
[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Htown_tech: Are you using a point to point t-1 between your equipment and the customer to link to their phones? I can't imagine trying to get decent voice quality on a link I didn't have direct control over the QOS in the routers. Btw, I can see some of the points the other installers are making. This type of solution currently doesn't appear to scale well with many businesses due to the need for so many managed switches to keep network segments from killing the voice quality. Remember this is just how it appears to me from the problems I've had installing hybrid pbx/ip and pure ip systems.
</font> Very good question. Yes we have partnered with Straitshot to deliver QoS to the phones. Their network was built for voip. I have only seen a hadnfull of providers that can guarentee QoS with thier offering. Thanks for asking. ------------------ www.itel-ip.com VoIP, with Features Galore
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All sentiment aside I'll give you a more detailed list of why I don't see hosted as good option: 1) you mentioned that PBX calls for multiple components in order to provide all the features. You are correct that this is often the case but I see this as a good thing. Consolidated hardware means consolidated failure. If my voicemail dies remember that the customer is still running fine with the PBX. If your Router, data switch or ISP connection dies what do you have. 2) How many simultaneous line/BLF appearences can you do with Polycom? Maybe 8 at most. We can do 24 on a comdial EP100-24. If you have GUI appearence on a PC app that's bad becuase you need your computer monitor to run other apps while your on the phone. If you have GUI appearence on the phone that's bad becuase you probably can't see all the appearences on the same menu level. Point is--you can't see what's going on at a glance. 3)Can you do hands free intercom between phones. This is a basic need & I haven't seen any hosted services that can do it. 4) Most places you can't get ISP services that impliment QOS. That's why I say it's better to process in house traffic locally & only use public ISP services where it's necessary. If you order dedicated point to point then you've just lost your cost saving with VOIP hosting. 5) Can you do whisper page? Another basic feature. 6) Hosted services will require more bandwith than none hosted. This is an ongoing expense that will eventaully eat up any saving on the install.
I could go on about what I see as negatives.
You gave your feature set all of which I can do with most any PBX plus the following. Take note that this is the Comdial MP5000 basic feature set.
Abandon Hold Release Access Denied All Revisions Account Codes with Positive Verifications Account Code Button All-Call Paging All Intercom Links Busy Indication Analog Terminal Inerface (ATI-X) Area Paging Interface Assist Button Automatic Call-Back Automatic Dialing Automatic Hold for Intercom Automatic Hold-Line to Intercom Automatic Hold-Line to Line Automatic Pause Insertion Automatic Privacy Automatic Redial (Of Busy All Revisions Number or Unanswered Call) Auxiliary Equipment Interface Auxiliary Station Ringer Interface Background Music Basic Key Service (1A2) Emulation Battery Back-Up Battery Back-Up Interface Block Programming Call Announce with Handsfree Answerback Call Costing and Station Message Detail Accounting Reports Call Forwarding On Call Forwarding - Personal Call Park Call Pick-Up - Directed Call Pick-Up - Group Call Transfer - Screened Call Transfer - Unscreened Call Waiting Tone Calling Station Identification On BLF Cassette Tape Up/Download Of COS Data Centrex/CO Compatible Class Of Service Programming Class Of Service Printout Common Audible Ringer Interface Conferencing - Add-On Conferencing - Multiline Conferencing - Unsupervised Data Security Dedicated Intercom For Attendant Default Functional Program Default Toll Restriction Delayed Ringing Designated Programmable Buttons Dial "0" for System Attendant Directed Dept. Calling With Dept. Call Distribution (DCD) Direct Inward Station Dial (DISD) Direct Station Call Hold Direct Station Selection With Busy Lamp Field (DSS/BLF) Distinctive Ringing Do Not Disturb Do Not Disturb Inhibit Do Not Disturb Override Doorbox Monitor Support Dual Intercom Dynamic Line Keys End-To-End Signaling On ITCN End-To-End Signaling On Lines Exclusive Hold All Revisions Exclusive Hold System-Wide ExEcumail Integration Excecutive/Attendant Override Extended Dual Tone Multiple Frequency (DTMF) External Paging Interface Feature Inhibit All Revisions Flexible Ringing Assignments Flexible Ringing Assignments OF PA Port Flexible Station & Line Class Of Service Control Flexible Station Numbering Plan Full Button Progammability Of Features Handsfree Answer Inhibit All Revisions "I Hold" & "I Use" Indications Idle Line Preference Intercom Hunt Group Intercom Line Timeout Last Number Redial LCD Messaging LCD Support Line Access Restriction Line Answer From Any Station (Night Mode) Line Groups Line Pre-selection Line & Line Group Queuing Manual Hold Meet-Me Answer Page Memory Retention Without Batteries Message Waiting Modular Wiring & Jacks 4 Conductor Wire System Music Interface Music-On-Hold Music-On-Hold System-Wide Mute Night Transfer (Of Ringing) Night Transfer Of Ringing Button Off-Hook Voice Announce (OHVA) With Handsfree Answerback On-Hook Dialing OPX Support Originating Denied PA Port Timeout PBX Compatible Personalized Ringing Tone Pooled Line Access Power Failure Transfer Power "On" Indication Prime Line Automatic Privacy - Designated Button Privacy Release Private Lines Programmable Buttons Programmable Password Pulse/Tone Switchable Remote Programming & Admin. Response Messaging Ringing Line Preference Saved Number Redial Secure Off-Hook Voice Announce (SOHVA) With Response Messaging Secure Off-Hook Voice Announce (SOHVA) Groups Secure Off-Hook Voice Announce (SOHVA) Originate Button Self Diagnostics Service Observing Service Observe Blocking Speakerphone Support Square/Non-Square Config. Station By Station Privacy Station Messaging Detail Accounting (SMDA) Station Messaging Detail Recording (SMDR) Station Monitoring With DSS Call Pickup Station Speed Dial Subdued Ringing System Speed Dial System Reset Tandem Attendant Tap (Flash)/Recall Tenant Service Timed Hold Recall Toll Restriction (0 and 1) Toll Restriction (Flexible) Toll Restriction (Night Mode) Tone Or Voice Signaling (ITCM) Transfer/Conference Button Unanswered Call Transfer Recall Timing Voice Announce Blocking Voicemail Transfer On Busy Zone Paging (Via Station Spkr) Service Observe Block SOHVA Button SOHVA Groups Account Code DISD Programmable/Administrator and Installer Passwords Voicemail Transfer on Busy System Reset from VDT COS Allow SLPS phone support on Express Systems P.A. Port timeout (system wide programmable for 5 seconds or never) Added Zonal Call Costing Feat. Added Night Mode Key
ElectSys Tech LLCHosted Phone Systems Solutions Provider Allworx, Sangoma, FreePBX Telephone & computer systems in the Jefferson City, Columbia MO area.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coral Tech: I have a stupid stupid question bbarnes...if you already know all the answers why are you asking the questions? Is this some new adverstisement technique? I have YET to see an all IP system outperform a hybrid. The backend costs are the meat and potatoes of all the IP systems today. Think about this...all of Cisco's first generation IP systems are dumpster food now. Not only that but how are the systems they have today going to supply power over ethernet on a gig network...thats right chaching$$$$....or when the IP structure changes in the next few years. chaching...$$$$
[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]
[This message has been edited by Coral Tech (edited June 23, 2005).]</font> My question(s)were what are the advantages and how many have you seen. Again, I was just trying to get the opinion of some industry veterans. Indeed I do know of some of the advantages we have cost wise, I just didnt know what you guys would say as an argument vs TDM and how many were actually out there. Actually your points were some of the more valid posted. I just wish you didnt have to be so harsh about it. ![[Linked Image from sundance-communications.com]](https://www.sundance-communications.com/forum/smile.gif) I could go back and forth on your but I dont think thats a good idea for me. My mear 6 posts dont carry much merit compared to your moderatorship. ![[Linked Image from sundance-communications.com]](https://www.sundance-communications.com/forum/smile.gif) My gut feeling is that some on this board may actully think this may be a viable option but mabey dont want to say so because of what others may think of them. I could be wrong, but thats just what I feel. Thnaks to all for hearing me out. I'll be sticking around and lurking if anyone doesnt mind... Thanks, bbarnes
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I'm here to learn & I'm sure you're welcom to stick around & do the same. I try to stay on top of all technologies such as hosted PBX so that I'm prepared if the market changes. I have nothing against it--it's just that I can't see any reason to recommend this to my customer. I will admit that after digging into the service you're looking at that it comes closer to being acceptable than anything I've seen thus far. However nowhere near good enough to justify replacing a PBX with it. It may work for a small co with 3-4 employees.
[This message has been edited by aweaver (edited June 23, 2005).]
ElectSys Tech LLCHosted Phone Systems Solutions Provider Allworx, Sangoma, FreePBX Telephone & computer systems in the Jefferson City, Columbia MO area.
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bbarnes. No one is trying to run you off. All sides are welcome. We customer premise equipment guys are opinionated but can usually back up our statements with real world applications and have seen too many issues with the hosted side. I personally don't think VOIP to the desktop is mature. It is surely capable of being a nightmare when the enduser changes items on the network and effectively destroy QOS. We use VOIP for tying remote locations together. Works fine lasts a long time. We use them for telecommuters. Again works well. Remember most are not pushing TDM over VOIP. THe general feeling is that hybrid is the safest and most economical way today. When I ask people why they want VOIP they say so I can move my own phones without calling you. I say price a VOIP solution and I price mine with a new fangled piece of technology called a PATCH PANEL and they are amazed that they don't have to pay through the nose just to move their own sets. ------------------ Business Phone Systems
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Thanks guys. aweaver, just so you know we can do handsfree intercom. That was one of the first things I asked. ![[Linked Image from sundance-communications.com]](https://www.sundance-communications.com/forum/smile.gif) As far as your other features I'm sure we do can most but not all and vise versa. Points well taken though. I appreciate you admiting that our service is closer to any others you have seen. I'll take that as a compliment. Seriously. ![[Linked Image from sundance-communications.com]](https://www.sundance-communications.com/forum/smile.gif) RATHER BE FISHING I agree with you on the hybrid stuff. That was actually how I started to get into this whole thing. I went looking for a hybrid solution that could support 3 party SIP so people could have "throw away IP phones" like shools in the gymnasium, warehouses etc. The only thing those people knew about voip was no Moves Ads Changes fees and using your phone at home. When I ran into what I found (Interactive Intelligence) I saw a box I could sell into any environment (existing PBX or not) and it would just act as an application box (UM, IVR, ACD, VoIP, etc) or it could stand on its own. The only problem was price (which was what I was aiming for in the first place!). Thats why I decided to look at the hosted model. The rest is history. As far everyone else. Thanks again for all your comments (both positive and negative) and I will be keeping everyone in the loop as we plow ahead. Anyone is free to e-mail me anytime if they want to say hi. Thanks again. -bbarnes ------------------ www.itel-ip.com VoIP, with Features Galore [This message has been edited by bbarnes (edited June 23, 2005).]
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All I want to know is if you deside not to get the "Dial Tone Feather" when you pic up the handset will there be an operator to connect you to Andy or Aunt Bee.
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What you may not realize is that most of us have dealt with a "hosted" solution for many years already - it's called Centrex, and we hate it. There is too much complication and wasted time involved when you have to place orders just to have some button programming or ringing assignments changed, not to mention the hassle (and cost) of adding phones. Sure, it saves money for a small office (less than 6 or 8 phones) but it will never run as smoothly as a Key System.
This is just my $.02, but I think it may explain where some of this "agression" (agravation?) is coming from.
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