sundance-communications.com/forum Forums VOIP Phones & IP PBX VoIP & Cloud Phones, Hosted PBX, General IP Phones VoIP/Hosted/Centralized Telco setup (long post)

Hi group, I am looking for some advice on VoIP/hosted telco/centralized telco services. I hope I am posting in the correct group as this touches a few areas.

I am planning ahead for a consolidation of our phone systems and a potential move of our headquarters to a new building. This wiould be 2 -3 years out, but I'd like to get some thoughts on this ahead of time.

Currently the company I work for has 300 employees and operates in 15 locations on the east coast:

6 warehouse locations with business offices
(~30 - 50 employees each)
1 small warehouse (5 employees)
2 business offices (~10 employees each)
7 small stores (3-4 employees each) - 2 share space with warehouse locations

We also have some outside sale folks that work from home most of the time.

Currently we run several disconnected phone systems and some Centrex (store locations). I'd like to standardize on one platform with integrated voicemail for the company. The plan is to do this in the next 2 -3 years, whether or not we move to a new building.

All of these facilities are connected data-wise via a private routed network served by Qwest. We are the hub for these locations and currently host all of the data servers.

When and if we move to a new facility my boss is considering outsourcing the mainframe and server systems such that all of the equipment is hosted by a separate company. This would relieve us of the considerations of building a server room in the new place. We do currently have a raised-floor server room, where our current phone system is located.

Of course with no server room (if we go that route), this limits my ability to host a PBX (we currently use a ROLM 9751).

I am looking for any input as to hosted PBX/VoIP systems. From a management standpoint, VoIP sounds pretty good to me. What I don't know is if this is a viable solution and if hosted VoIP (or PBX) is what we really want to do.

I'm not sure of all the questions to ask, though I have a few listed below. Even if we decide to host a PBX at one site with links to other locations, I'm not sure how this is setup. Anyway, here's the list of questions I have:


1. In a hosted PBX or VoIP solution, or even with a centralized on-site PBX can we still keep local numbers for each location?

2. If one's equipment is centrally located, how do local calls work? IE - if my phone system is located in Maryland and someone in New Jersey needs to make a local call, is that really a long-distance call since the equipment is in Maryland? How is this typically handled?

3. What about DID numbers? Can we keep these? How are they routed?

4. What would a company do in terms of having a local operator at larger locations? Is there a sort of gatekeeper in place at these locations, or would it all be centralized at one site?

5. Currently we use a different automated attendant setup at a few of our locations. Would this still be possible or even recommended?

6. What is the usual way of connecting multiple sites to a centralized telephone system? What type of backup links are typically used?

7. I figure moving to a completely new system would cost around $1,000 per user (phone equipment, initial setup, new phones, training). Much less for a hosted system, but a high MRC I suppose. Is this estimate in the ballpark?

8. Any recommendations on what type of systems? Some features we're looking for are below:

- Outside sales would like to be able to forward their lines to a home/cell phone.

- Internet access to change user settings would be nice (web-based user management)

- We have several Inside Sales queues, so we'd need good ACD capabilities

- Ability to dial by extension to anyone at another location

- Distribution lists for voicemail

- Custom on-hold messages by location (different or store locations)

- Local paging at our warehouse locations (page over intercom)

- Local directions to our supplier truck drivers

- After-hours/emergency messages need to be customized by location? (For example, if our Pittsburgh office is closed due to snow)

9. What about backup analog lines? Since we have a large inside sales presence, the ability to receive phone calls is critical. What is a good number of lines (percentage of total trunks, perhaps?) that are required and how are they usually setup?

Sorry for the long post, but as you can see I have many questions/concerns on how a VoIP/hosted/centralized phone system would be setup. I am open to any suggestions from those who have the experience so I can make an informed decision on our future telecom setup.


Regards,

Hi, nobody's picked this up yet so I figured i'll give it a shot...
First FYI all my experience is on a system called Asterisk. It's an open source (free) soft-PBX type program, that can do just about anything. Check it out @ www.asterisk.org . As such my advice is based on what I know about Asterisk. If you choose a proprietary vendor's product, some or all of this may not apply, as the following reflects how i'd set it up using Asterisk.
Lastly, if I say 'wiki it', I mean search https://www.voip-info.org for it, this side has a large amount of VoIP and asterisk information. Lastly, I do mostly smaller deployments, but I know at least a little about larger ones so I will try to help.


Your Qwest network will be most helpful in setting this up. I am going to assume its all easily routed (no NAT) and at least the server can get on the Internet from your main datacenter. Also, how much bandwidth does this provide you? At full quality (G.711 ulaw codec) a call takes about 80kbit/sec including overhead. When highly compressed (gsm, iLBC, g.729) it can be as low as 10-15kbit/sec.
Also- stop thinking about this as many small systems and start thinking one big system.
Also, with IP lines there is often not a channel limit, you are only limited by your bandwidth.

Also with 300 users, you won't need THAT much to get on asterisk, in certain situations. A good-size box running * should be able to handle 300 concurrant calls without too much of a problem (and I doubt your . If you do 'difficult things' (codec translating, conferencing, etc) this number goes down. The point is you may very well be able to fit much/all of what is required into your existing datacenter. If you require 'large things' (channel banks, large PSTN interfaces, etc) this may not apply. Wiki for a page called Asterisk Dimensioning for info about who is using what hardware and what it can handle.

Set up your * server(s). Standardize on a few models of IP phones. Configure DHCP for your network to provide a tftp-server. Probably also set up some kind of database for phone configurations. Use this to make files for the TFTP so the phones will configure themselves. Takes a bit of doing but makes setting the phone itself up VERY VERY VERY easy, just plug it in (assuming its provisioned in the server first).
You plug in new phone. DHCP provides it with a TFTP server, from which it fetches a config file based on its manufacturer or model and another based on its MAC address. It also downloads new firmware if your server provides it. It then reboots if needed and the settings take effect.
The two files let you set settings for everybody (what server to use, etc) while defining individual settings (SIP login, softkeys, etc)


You can also distribute things more. Set up small regional or local Asterisk boxes that handle certain areas.

Lastly, keep in mind that how you terminate your calls does not have to be VoIP even if your PBX is.


Now to your questions.

1. You can almost certainly keep all your local numbers, although this depends on what VoIP provider you get. Often one provider can port a number while another can't. If you have PRIs or something in an area and watn to keep them, you can, * will handle this fine and I'm sure so will other packages. You just need an appropriate interface board.

2. Again, depends on providers. Often you can work out a deal whereby local calls will be free. Even so, VoIP minutes are not expensive, usually 1-2c/min tops and you can negotiate a better rate if you use a lot.

3. See above. DIDs are easy, they will be routed to your central PBX and from there to your sites/phones. If you have local pbx's they can register directly to the provider if you have different accounts. If you mean real DID numbers (call number, dial extension, get person) that can also be done.

4. You can have an operator on VoIP. IP phones are available with a lot of buttons if you need them (cisco, snom 360, and grandstream 2000 all support sidecar modules). Calls can ring the operator and and/or go to whatever based on whatever criteria (time, operator logged in, etc)

5. Sure it is. You can route a call based on what number it came in on, what caller id was provided, what day/date/time it is, what setting is set to what, or any combination of the above / almost any other criteria you can think of.

6. As above, you can super-centralize or you can spread out with smaller, local servers. Asterisk servers can trunk calls to each other via SIP or IAX2 (inter asterisk exchange) protocols. You can route calls based on extension range (2xxx is NYC, 3xxx is boston, etc) or simply by which server has it (wiki for DUNDi). All the transport will be across your Qwest network. Installing backup links is the same as backup Internet links.

7. A bit high but not bad estimate. Running financials, say $3000 for the main server (assuming you centralize), $300 or less per phone (user), plus man-hours, training, etc. If you need to upgrade your Qwest links or switching capacity this goes up.

8. Asterisk (the system I know) can do all of the stuff you mention. Few gotchas...
call forwarding requires some setup, this can be done by making an Agent for each user or with a call forward script. It is quite possible tho.
web based admin- Asterisk itself can be configured from flat config files or through a MySQL database. There are however packages (asterisk+stuff) that provide a web front end. For example: Trixbox.
Dial by extension will not be a problem as long as you have the bandwidth to handle all the calls.
Voicemail distro lists are easy. Make an exten that dials like VoiceMail(mailbox1&mailbox2&mailbox3) etc.
Asterisk supports MOH from mp3 files or other audio files. You can change MOH classes per-channel, per-user, or per anything else. Each MOH class is a folder with file(s) in it. You can make as many classes as you want.
Paging is also easy. If you have an * server onsite, hook it's sound card up to the paging system. Otherwise you can page through phones (most phone support intercom/paging). You can page through an overhead system using either the sound card, or something more specialized- you can get paging controllers with a POTS interface (hook it up to an ATA (analog telephony adapter, ethernet on one side, FXS (station) POTS port on the other), or you can also use a VoIP phone to interface a paging system. Grandstream GXP2000 phones for example have a 3.5mm jack which can be easily wired up to a paging system.
Afterhours is easy. Have an audio file which contains the after hours message for a location. Dialing a certain extension records or lets you change this file or turn it on/off (you can script this)
For a backup, use a PRI (t1). Probably run this to your central place. Alternatively, you can get PRIs to local servers, and local calls would go out and incoming come in this way, with LD calls going out via VoIP. Remember, VoIP PBX doesnt necessarily mean VoIP phone service.


Hope that helps!

I have a better idea. Buy (or sell) a hybrid (TDM+IP) system and be done with the entire installation in half a day, giving the customer what they really need and want.

No "maybes", routers, servers, switches, files, batches, patches, upgrades, limitiations, meetings with the IT guy, conference calls, etc.

Just provide clean voice communications that the customers expect and should receive. Seems to have been a pretty simple task until a few years ago. Now, the people who have no clue about phones have a better way to make it happen.

I say make it happen or get out, because it isn't happening. I am tired of giving refunds due to other peoples' mistakes or short sidedeness.

hey there

FIrst, I only responded because nobody else had. I don't know how much this guy wants to do; if he wants something off the shelf there are a hundred companies who will sell him a 'IP PBX' that he can plug in and start using.
And for the record, I'm not saying that I have a better way, but only that I have A way, which I presented. It's not THE way, just A way, one of many. I think it would be at least something to think about for him (I got the idea he was a computer tech), because he could set up one or two centralized servers (which he can administer remotely), and these would then deal with a small army of IP phones under them, without any extra pbx gear.
Also my response may not be correct for him, because I'm not sure what he has now in terms of service to his locations.

You say buy a TDM+IP system... "No "maybes", routers, servers, switches, files"... this is not true. If you are going to think about running calls over IP, you are going to have to think about your network infrastructure; especially when you have that many users. You can't run 35 concurrant calls over a single PRI span (T1), so if you have a 35 seat telemarketing call center (for example) you will need more than a single T1. Same is true with a computer network. If your IP network has data traffic on it, and you are going to start putting voice traffic on it, you need to first figure out if you have enough bandwidth and switching capacity to handle the additional load.

So the above is what I would set up were I him. I am curious, what would you set up? (i am actually quite curious...)

Steve,
Welcome to the board! I'm sorry your post went so long without being responded to. Also, welcome IronHelix and thanks for bringing this post back to life.

I don't have time to reply to everything you posted, but I'll give my opinion on a couple of items.

First:
When and if we move to a new facility my boss is considering outsourcing the mainframe and server systems such that all of the equipment is hosted by a separate company. This would relieve us of the considerations of building a server room in the new place.

In the year 2006, I would not build a new facility for 50+ people without server room. You still will need a large area for wiring and data equipment. What kind of bandwidth would you need to accommodate this many people if your servers are all off site? Even if you don't put servers in now, make preparations for when you do (and you will) add them later.

In regards to hosted IP vs a PBX:

9. What about backup analog lines? Since we have a large inside sales presence, the ability to receive phone calls is critical.

I think you answered your own question. I would not consider a hosted solution for a company with more than 5 employees. (Actually, I would never consider it at all.) What happens if the hosting company folds two years from now and they don't give you notice? Can you imagine your company without phone service for 2+ weeks trying to get new service established?

If it were me, I would go with a more integrated approach. Install hybrid systems at each location and network them together with VoIP. If the PRI is down between a warehouse and your main office, you're not totally dead. The warehouse still has local lines and can make and receive calls.

The reason a lot of us older (I'm 37) traditional phone techs frown on server based systems is reliability. How many times has the Rolm system gone down in the last 15 years?

Thanks, guys for the responses. IronHelix, I appreciate you taking time to respond to so many of my questions.

I am hesitant to move towards an open source solution because I really don't want to manage this myself to that degree. I don't mind at all doing MAC work and some configuration, but I'd really rather have some more experienced techs to support the overall configuration. IronHelix, you did peg me right, I am a network guy who happens to do some phone work. I wouldn't mind getting into the nitty gritty of a particular phone system, but I'm not familiar enough now to take on that responsibility (plus I do have my primary job to do).

Thanks, guys for the responses. IronHelix, I appreciate you taking time to respond to so many of my questions.

I have done some reading on Asterisk, though I am hesitant to move towards an open source solution because I really don't want to manage this myself to that degree. I don't mind at all doing MAC work and some configuration, but I'd really rather have some more experienced techs to support the overall configuration. Also, for something this important I'd like to have a well-established product with the accompanying support behind it. Of course there is always a price/performance balance, but having been though phone downtime, I understand just how critical our phone systems are to the company's operations.

IronHelix, you did peg me right, I am a network guy who happens to do some phone work. I wouldn't mind getting into the nitty gritty of a particular phone system, but I'm not familiar enough now to take on that responsibility (plus I do have my primary network job to do).

Ed, I have been thinking about a hybrid system as you mentioned. I'll be having some conversations with our Qwest representative, so I'll be curious to see what types of systems they recommend. I have discussed with Qwest the idea of having a separate network for the telecom links, though I haven't done any cost/benefit analyis as yet. I have read a lot of your posts, Ed, and do tend to see things your way often.

ncphoneman, I agree with you on the data room side. I was just wondering if the outsourcing makes any sense as I've never dealt with an outsourced datacom scenario before. Of course the benefit of outsourcing would be that we could also accomplish disaster recovery if the right solution was selected. On the data side I think we could do it, though I don't have a good feel for the telecom side. Having said that, I am definitely more confortable with the idea of managing my own server room.

You are correct about the Rolm system's stability. I call it the Sherman Tank of our telecom infrastructure. Also, I'd like to say that I'm 37 years old as well, though I never considered myself "older" (until now).
:-)

Cough, Cough...Choke...Cough... You may consider going with someone other than your telco. You might be surprised at the price and service difference.

Just a thought

Pardon me while I use your post for reference on your questions.
I will look at your needs from a Tadiran system point of view.

Currently the company I work for has 300 employees and operates in 15 locations on the east coast:

6 warehouse locations with business offices
(~30 - 50 employees each)
-you will want to put smaller systems in these buildings for redundancy.

1 small warehouse (5 employees)
-IP phones with FXO converters for local 911 and disaster recovery

2 business offices (~10 employees each)
-ditto

7 small stores (3-4 employees each) - 2 share space with warehouse locations
-ditto with the ability to simply use the local systems that will be there.

-Your app, from what you have stated here is what we call seperating the men from the boys. You will need a large system with adequate "tenant" services and a VERY robust LCR or ARS to do proper call routing for 911 ect. You can also look into a hybrid and simply use digital/analog sets for where you have a box (PBX/Hybrid/IP)

We also have some outside sale folks that work from home most of the time.
-IP phones AND/OR using a feature called flexicall that can ring a company DID to a CELL or home phone at the same time as your extension. This is not call forwarding as the "flexicalled" extension can transfer the call within the network like an extension.
-you may ALSO want to consider a system that has conference bridge capabilities for meetings.

Currently we run several disconnected phone systems and some Centrex (store locations). I'd like to standardize on one platform with integrated voicemail for the company. The plan is to do this in the next 2 -3 years, whether or not we move to a new building.
-You could actually use Centrex on the Tadiran as a viable phone network if you can't get out of the contract early.

All of these facilities are connected data-wise via a private routed network served by Qwest. We are the hub for these locations and currently host all of the data servers.
-Any system that uses IP will require bandwidth and priority of that bandwidth. There is no such thing as a call that can be compressed smaller than the IP header that carries it. That is a falacy. Also understand that routers and the quality of the data connections drive sound quality and are IMPORTANT.

When and if we move to a new facility my boss is considering outsourcing the mainframe and server systems such that all of the equipment is hosted by a separate company. This would relieve us of the considerations of building a server room in the new place. We do currently have a raised-floor server room, where our current phone system is located.
-Outsourcing can be a good thing but I have seen many a horror story where you sell your soul to the devil. Be wary of subbing you lifes blood out to people that may not think you are a priority like you have now.

Of course with no server room (if we go that route), this limits my ability to host a PBX (we currently use a ROLM 9751).
-The 9751..the rock. Systems are smaller today and no matter what you will still need a rack area for cabling and network switches.

I am looking for any input as to hosted PBX/VoIP systems. From a management standpoint, VoIP sounds pretty good to me. What I don't know is if this is a viable solution and if hosted VoIP (or PBX) is what we really want to do.
-Quite honestly hosted is selling your soul to the devil. Every single hosted I have seen you do not get to keep your DID's if you get them from them OUCH. Be wary trusting your complete voice network to a T1 coming into the building.

I'm not sure of all the questions to ask, though I have a few listed below. Even if we decide to host a PBX at one site with links to other locations, I'm not sure how this is setup. Anyway, here's the list of questions I have:

1. In a hosted PBX or VoIP solution, or even with a centralized on-site PBX can we still keep local numbers for each location?
-PBX/HYBRID/IP Tadiran can do this. BEWARE of people that say they can do this without a robust ARS or LCR. This is what seperates the men from the boys.

2. If one's equipment is centrally located, how do local calls work? IE - if my phone system is located in Maryland and someone in New Jersey needs to make a local call, is that really a long-distance call since the equipment is in Maryland? How is this typically handled?
-This is what ARS is for to make sure the calls are using the least expesive route. ARS Automatic Route Selection. LCR Least Cost Routing.

3. What about DID numbers? Can we keep these? How are they routed?
-Again, there are variables and beware of hosted. DID can be routed any way you want to ANY extesion on a network. Recommend a PRI for this.

4. What would a company do in terms of having a local operator at larger locations? Is there a sort of gatekeeper in place at these locations, or would it all be centralized at one site?
-Depends on what you want. The Tadiran ANY extension can be an operator...even a wireless analog phone. You could have 1 operator or as many as you would like.

5. Currently we use a different automated attendant setup at a few of our locations. Would this still be possible or even recommended?
-Yes and no. Distributed meas that if you lose an IP link they will still have Auto attendant capabilities. Either you want to be redundant OR roll the dice and use a centralized system. Most systems I have seen use the one centralized for ease of managing with seperate AA greetings for each branch.

6. What is the usual way of connecting multiple sites to a centralized telephone system? What type of backup links are typically used?
-Depends. If you are on a phone network you will be connected to the voicemail. There are an uncredible amount of options for the data. Mos people try and balance reality with the expense of what they are trying to do.

7. I figure moving to a completely new system would cost around $1,000 per user (phone equipment, initial setup, new phones, training). Much less for a hosted system, but a high MRC I suppose. Is this estimate in the ballpark?
-That seems a tad high but, you are definately in realm of getting a GOOD system. Remember, the data side HAS to be JUST as good if not better than the phone side if you want IP to work correctly.

8. Any recommendations on what type of systems? Some features we're looking for are below:
-Tadiran, I would not even consider any of the other systems we sell because of the ARS/LCR considerations.

- Outside sales would like to be able to forward their lines to a home/cell phone.
+Flexicall, as noted above OR you could always forward as traditional PBX. ALSO IRSS, a feature that alows people to call their DID and recieve system dialtone (secure DISA based on caller ID) and control phone setting via a cell or home phone.

- Internet access to change user settings would be nice (web-based user management)
+This is possible for voicemail as well

- We have several Inside Sales queues, so we'd need good ACD capabilities
+ACD is actually built in.

- Ability to dial by extension to anyone at another location
+Standard networking

- Distribution lists for voicemail
+Standard for Active Voice in-skin voicemail with outlook integration and fax server capabilities

- Custom on-hold messages by location (different or store locations)
+This can be set by, trunk, extension, or hunt group. Standard.

- Local paging at our warehouse locations (page over intercom)
+Standard

- Local directions to our supplier truck drivers
+Again, each location can have seprate AA greetings by company. This is part of it.

- After-hours/emergency messages need to be customized by location? (For example, if our Pittsburgh office is closed due to snow)
+Yes

9. What about backup analog lines? Since we have a large inside sales presence, the ability to receive phone calls is critical. What is a good number of lines (percentage of total trunks, perhaps?) that are required and how are they usually setup?
+That would be something you would have to sit down and talk about and go over call volume in a pre-sales meeting.

Sorry for the long post, but as you can see I have many questions/concerns on how a VoIP/hosted/centralized phone system would be setup. I am open to any suggestions from those who have the experience so I can make an informed decision on our future telecom setup.


Regards,

--------------------
- Steve

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Sorry about the long re-post but I hope this helps!

As Coral stated:
1) Forget about a hosted solution
2) Make sure your purchase a PBX that has robust ARS such as a Tadiran Coral.
3) Find a dealer that experienced with networked systems.