sundance-communications.com/forum Forums VOIP Phones & IP PBX VoIP & Cloud Phones, Hosted PBX, General IP Phones What do you think of this VOIP setup? Please help!

Thank you kumba, will definetely remember that.

Everybody, here are the general features listed ON HP's website for the 1800.

General Protocols
IEEE 802.1p Priority
IEEE 802.1Q VLANs
IEEE 802.3ad Link Aggregation Control Protocol (LACP)
IEEE 802.3x Flow Control
RFC 1534 DHCP/BOOTP Interoperation

Network Management
IEEE 802.1AB Link Layer Discovery Protocol (LLDP)

The first 3 are the key right? I don't think my requirements are too demanding. The feature list for the 2610's is like 5 times as big nor do I know what they mean.

dcabrera: Please try to keep all your replies in one post. I know it says you can do a threaded reply but this forum does not thread unfortunately.

The 3 things I look for on the feature/standards list is: 802.1p, 802.1Q, and 802.3af. The rest are either required to support the above protocols or are just nice to have but not necessarily a selling point to me.

802.1p is a queueing/prioritization scheme that lets you have a VoIP packet get routed before anything else (which is good). 802.1Q is a way of virtually segmenting the CDMA's within the switch, that way all those packets getting tossed around for VoIP aren't being bogged down with bulky file transfers or having to compete for use of the wire. 802.3af is a personal bias and is used to deliver Power over Ethernet. Eliminating the need for power bricks will reduce service calls because inevitably someone will just move the phone and plug it in and it didn't work (didn't plug the brick back in). If you aren't going to PoE every port then I'd HIGHLY suggest using a colored jack for the PoE one's. Also invest in a nice size UPS (I like 1500-va for every 24-ports).

As far as the rest they are as follows:
802.3ad lets you use two cables to link two switches together, in theory doubling your switch to switch bandwidth. 802.3x is a congestion control scheme to prevent one user/port from saturating the switch with traffic and/or packets (like an FTP transfer). 802.1AB is a method of letting a network map itself (atleast between switches and devices that support it) so you can hopefully see how the topology is connected.

Now your network isn't that big and in my opinion it's on the verge of needing Layer-3 management. If you plan on having more "edge" switches then I would suggest you at least go with a Layer-3 core switch, and maybe layer 2.5 "Smart" switches for the "edge". The things I would look for if you plan to grow this network would be 802.1D spanning tree support and port mirroring. I'd also make sure the switches would start speaking to each other as core and edge so you can manage a network and not a collection of switches.

If it was me, I'd trunk the 2610's to the 1800s and run dual fiber tie gbic's off the 1800's. Vlan all switches. Don't know about your internet access, so can't say where routing should take place. I would at the least make sure that there was some routing between the vlans for ease of management. I would also enable LLDP-Med on the 2610's.

dcabrera, I would not worry about the hardware, as it is high quality, as others have said. Your config will make all the difference.
As you mentioned, it's good to isolate the VOIP and PC traffic. If possible you should have a physically rather than virtually separate VOIP lan and a PC lan, with only maybe administration points common between them. That way you avoid QOS processing at the switch; all QOS/COS processing happens at the network edge - especially useful when phones and PCs share communications paths with the outside world - or/and at a single core switch/router. Further config is needed if you're doing UM (unified messaging) or any similar interfacing where there obviously must be another point of contact between the two LANS.

To answer the question directed at me, the drawbacks to keeping things seperate are mostly cost related, but in my case (and we're going into a new building as well) I got approved for the costs involved:

(1) Seperate runs to each desk (I'm doing 3 - yes its nuts but our place is going to be a sardeen can and I may need to sling printers or other devices in odd places, having extra jacks will be nice)

(2) Seperate switching gear/more rack space needed/more UPS needed - I looked at this from the POE point of view; knowing that X jack at every desk is POE means you can plug a phone in and it'll light up

Now the nice things are that its totally seperate, so if a problem does arise the vendor can't tell me my data network is the problem, and it helps with troubleshooting. I can also connect the 2 networks together using the built-in routing on the Procurves, and have it where the VOIP is say, VLAN2, so that I can extra the voip stuff onto the data network if need be, or vice-versa.

PS - Kumba, thanks for that great info. I need to buy another switch or two even before we move, so I may look into changing things to the core-edge model. Right now my switches are just stacked with dual aggregated links between each one, so in theory the backbone is split across each switch (we have 6 currently). I did it this way mostly because I have a retarded 96 port patch panel and running wiring from that to the switches using 1ft cables was a little complex, but it worked.

My next question is - has anyone used a full server cabinet as a wiring rack, utilizing BOTH SIDES for patch panels/switches?

The core-switch model comes into play when you want to try and limit your "Virtual Switch Length" to 3-4 hops. What that means is that from one node in the network to another node you don't want to hop through more then 3-4 switches if possible. Each switch adds latency and just increases issues in general on high-usage networks. If you need to do more then that it's best to have some sort of layer 3 routing in there that can basically buffer between large network segments (kind of like how the internet works). Plus the more switch hops you have the harder it is to diagnose issues such as packet storms and such.

sph & orion - I agree with your statements, physically seperate is better. As long as I can easily get them to talk to each other for UM purposes later.

As far as the drawbacks in cost, the good thing is, we are not leveraging any existing legacy equipment. And we put two drops to each station. Factor in, I don't think we need "enterprise" switches and the layer 2 procurve stuff fits the bill based on your guy's gracious input. Allows me to buy a couple of more switches to get gigabit to the desktop. If unlimited budget... yes, layer 3 enterprise all the way around.

>>>I can also connect the 2 networks together using the built-in routing on the Procurves
Thanks for that orion, i wonder how you would do that? Have to look into that. Plus, I don't think the 1800's havethat featire amongst it's older brethren, anybody know?

Well, I have seen it, but. Back in my days in IT that was not considered a good practice. Wiring racks were 2/4 post frames or got cabinets of their own. Active and passive equipment would be kept separately, and ofcourse in a server cabinet you have to consider airflow patterns and cable management.
There have been advances in design since then though, so I don't know that you can't do that. Again, the main problem would be restricting airflow, unless ofcourse your cabinet can be equipped with fans or other active cooling.
Almost all major companies have rack configurators to help with that stuff.
Here's a couple from APC and DELL
APC rack config
DELL data center config

Note that in Dell's case you can download the tool as well. Both are geared towards their equipment, but they can apply others as well. HP has a similar tool called HP Enterprise Configurator. What these do is give you an idea of the proper enviromental factors, among other things such as power budgets etc etc

dcabrera: The 2610s can be configured with static and/or dynamic routing - though since you'll only have 2 switches your case is pretty simple. The 1800s are basically bridges, but again I don't see why that's not adequate in your case what with their VLAN properties etc. Just make sure to have enough empty ports for future expansion and troubleshooting/swapping. The 1800s can do port mirroring.

Also, I think that there's a sort of informal practice to use orange for POE structured cabling components (jacks/cables etc). It may have been incorporated into a proposal or standard by now, I haven't got a chance to look.

The racks I'm looking to use (that I already have a couple of) are APC Netshelter SX's. Our new server room (see: janitor closet) is literally going to be nothing more than 5 server cabinets in a row. The end one I figured I'd designate as wiring since the side doors on one side will be openable. There will be full access on either side, and since the room is fairly small, it will have dedicated ac with the returns on the hot side and outlets on the cold side. I figured either I could do switches and patches on both sides, or keep the switches on one side and patches on the other. It may be possible to do a relay rack but not a whole lot of room to work with.