sundance-communications.com/forum Forums Wiring - Telecom Carriers - Trunks & Services Telecom Service & Providers Auto Attendant signal Issue

Hi all,

I recently switched a remote office from Quest to Cox cable for internet and phone service. I ported over all of the numbers with no problems, but am having a strange issue. The remote office has a small NEC phone system and my Home office has an Altigen system. With quest service I could call the remote office, get the auto attendant and select the extension I would like to reach. Now with Cox I make a selection and it is not recognized via my Altigen handsets. I've tried other providors, cell phones, another type of phone on my Altigen PBX, local carriers and they all work just fine. When I get the AA from the home office I can here to inputted beep, but no action. I'm guessing a signal is being blocked somehow over Cox network? Any input would be appreciated.

The feature that is not working is called "end to end signalling." It is my prediction that no CLEC will have anyone on staff who is familiar with that basic telephonic term.

In plain English, there is not enough audio signal strength getting through the established voice connection to activate the distant end Touch Tone receivers. The total loss in a circuit is cumulative. That means that a little bit of loss, in a few different places, can add up to cause the failure. If the far end facilities are marginal, and the TT receivers in the KSU are marginal, then the near end facilities, if they fall below the accepted parameters, can cause the failure.

You need to do several loss tests, with a transmission test set, on a terminated (established) call. These tests need to made under varying conditions, and to several different destinations. Then you need to demonstrate the loss to the CLEC.

The above applies if you are a communications technician. (you don't say if you are.)

If you are not, you need to hire one who is experienced in telephone transmission technique to do the tests, document them, make the complaint, meet the CLEC technician, demonstrate the condition, escalate the complaint, and ensure that the problem is satisfactorily resolved.

Or, you could port the lines back to a system that works.

Or, you could try using an industry-standard 2500 set (not a Chinese knock-off) at your location, connected directly to one of the trunks, and see if the failure occurs. The low signal strength may be attributable to the Altigen KSU (sorry, I'm not familiar with that brand) and as I mentioned above, it (the KSU) may have been marginal all along, and the introduction of a different CLEC's facilities may have been the final, fatal, addition of loss.

Does the KSU pass TT digits for as long as the telephone set dial is pressed, or does the KSU translate dial pushes and then send out timed tones? If the latter, can the KSU be programmed to lengthen the transmitted tones?

Good luck!

Arthur covered it all, except . Hope he hasn't "baffled you with brilliance"! We do want to know about progress and what finally cured the problem, so please "C'mon back!" John C.

I didn't try to say anything particularly brilliant or baffling.

I just used the simplest possible terms to dispel his diagnosis that something is "blocking" the signal, and explain how it's supposed to work, and why it doesn't work, and how to test it, and how to fix it.

When people ask a question, and have little expertise in the area that's troubling them, they often want a quick and easy answer. There is no magical repair here. This is a forum that offers technical help. There is no substitute for careful analysis and well thought-out testing. Not until he understands the nature of the problem, can he fend for himself in getting it fixed.

The short answer: "End-to-end loss" would have been more baffling and less brilliant, IMHO.

Sadly, customers often flock to cheaper dial tone options to supposedly save money. The providers selling these services don't cover all of the bases. They leave too many stones unturned. Fact is, they aren't true service providers.

You will be hard-pressed to have any legal "teeth" against the far-end provider if they aren't a regulated telco. In the US, each geographical "exchange" area has only one ILEC, but can have many CLECs (competitors). The CLECs are supposedly held to the same regulatory standards that the ILECs are, but we in this business know that this isn't enforced.

Saving money is a great idea, but only to a certain extent. If you can't get through to your own employees, think of the reaction that your customers have?

Everything has a level of quality and associated cost.

Brilliantly stated, Ed, and not a bit baffling.

I'm wondering if a traditional 2500 set is becoming a dinosaur. Don't new ones now have more electonic components? I keep a few of the ones with traditional networks and dial contacts because their value for a testing baseline is becoming invaluable.

If there is no problem calling the NEC system from any other phone or location the problem is not with Cox (as much as I hate Cable company Telephone). So put the blame where it belongs- you need to take it up with Altigen, which is some kind of VoIP system. The only thing I hate more than Cable Company Telephone is VoIP! Real phone systems wouldn't do that.

-Hal

Easy problem to solve if you have a digit grabber!

I'm not sure how a Digit Grabber would help.

I think a Digit Grabber will tell him what digits are being dialed at his end, but will not tell him the duration and signal strength of the digits, nor will it tell him the loss through the key system, or the loss from the key system to the CLEC CO, or the total loss.

These parameters need to be measured using a transmission measuring set, as I recommended.

Let's not muddy the waters until he does what's essential: measure the loss of each section of the call.

A simple test...the 2500 set at the NID, followed by subsequent tests of the legs of the circuit, will pinpoint the problem.

Since the condition developed when he changed CLECs, the digits are probably still the same ones he was transmitting before the problem occurred. He just needs to measure the loss, determine that it is lower than industry standards, and have the CLEC fix their shoddy trunking.