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Here is something I've never seen or heard of before. Just bought a 2565 that had a 760 and 666 wired into it. Of course I hooked it up and it didn't work. I know, it needs a Model 55 control unit to work, but I thought maybe the 760 and 666 were wired into a terminal board inside the phone and used the spare leads from the 25-pair cable, so the Model 55 control unit could be mounted by the KSU. Imagine my surprise when I opened the phone up and found all the wires from the 760 and 666 wired into the chassis of the 2565. Has anyone else seen anything like this? Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Bill
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BSP

It's not Kosher, but it can be made to work that way. As you pointed out, it needs the control unit, of course, which would be mounted anywhere along the run of the 25-pair connecting cable, from the set back to the KSU location.

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all the wires from the 760 and 666 (are) wired into the chassis of the 2565.
What do you mean by "wired into the chassis"?

There is a key, and a network. There is no chassis. Do the leads terminate on spare (blind) screws on the key and network?

Just out of interest, what mounting cord leads are assigned to the speaker?


Arthur P. Bloom
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Thank you for replying, Arthur, and your BSP does shed some light but still doesn't answer my basic thoughts on all this. I guess it makes sense that there must have been some type of connection plan for the Type 3 speakerphone as it was still extant when the 2565 was introduced. I always thought however, that the 2565 was introduced to make the 4A speakerphone a "plug and play" operation. (Was the 2564 just pre-4A or just no speakerphone..period?)

Anyway, to answer your questions of me, here is what I can see of the wires from the 666 and 760 speakerphone units:
From 666:
BL-O to L1 of network
BL-S to B-Y of 25-pair cable
Y-O to LG on key unit (all following on far left column of key unit)
O-BL to LH
B-R to #4
G-Y to #3
S-BL to #2

From 760 unit:
green to #1 on key (far left column)
red to far left SG on top row of key unit

Hope this is what you wanted Arthur.


Bill
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Blue is abbreviated Bl

Black is abbreviated Bk

Brown is abbreviated Br


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Thank you for replying, Arthur,
You're welcome

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...your BSP does shed some light but still doesn't answer my basic thoughts on all this.
You basic question was, why or how is the speakerphone connected directly into the phone, and my answer was, the BSP doesn't allow that method, but it will work. The way your phone is hooked up is non-standard. The BSP cannot address situations that might occur, only situations that must occur. The BSP's are prescriptive. That seems to address your thoughts.

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I guess it makes sense that there must have been some type of connection plan for the Type 3 speakerphone as it was still extant when the 2565 was introduced.
Correct. That's what the BSP in my link exactly describes. It shows the use of the 66E terminal and the 149-type connecting block. The 2565 is just the TT version of the 565 which was around a long time. The introduction of the 156x and 256x did not affect the distribution of the 3-type speakerphone.

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I always thought however, that the 2565 was introduced to make the 4A speakerphone a "plug and play" operation.
No, the x565 sets, as opposed to the x564 sets, were simply phones that existed in the arsenal of sets that could be requisitioned for specific tasks. x564 for applications without speakerphone, and x565 for installations with speakerphone.

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(Was the 2564 just pre-4A or just no speakerphone..period?)
See above answer. They were installed per the features that were ordered by the subscriber.

I think your confusion may lie in the fact that 3-type speakerphones, 4-type speakerphones, rotary key sets and Touch Tone sets, and sets with and without the extra leads for speakerphone service, all appeared in the same era, and they crossed over in the production timeline. There is no cause and effect among their appearance. If a subscriber had a defective 3-type, the repairman was expected to repair or replace the defective components, even after the 3-type was rated "MD" (manufacture discontinued).


Arthur P. Bloom
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Just out of interest, what mounting cord leads are assigned to the speaker?
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From 760 unit:
green to #1 on key (far left column)
red to far left SG on top row of key unit

Hope this is what you wanted Arthur.


Arthur P. Bloom
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Wow, Arthur, a lot to dig through here. One, I thought BSPs were the "standard" that all installers had to adhere to, but then again I am not an installer.

Looking back, I think I did a poor job stating my original thoughts: I have never seen a Type 3 speakerphone in operation, but have always seen the speaker and transmitter wired directly to the Model 55 control unit. Seeing the 2565 with the two units wired into it really took be aback.
Similarly, I remember getting a 2565 with 4A speakerphone complete that had no 85B power supply but 92B connecting block had connections to run power from the KSU. Our mutual friend EV said that was commonly done but I had never seen that before.
Getting back to this issue, does your BSP actually show something as to what I have. Only two pages, 6 and 7, seem to deal with this. Pages 8 and 9 deal with a 149 connecting block, which I thought was like a 2 in 1 adaptor.

And yes, in my haste, I got abbreviations confused. Sorry, here is the corrected version:

BK-O to L1 of network
BK-S to BL-Y of25-pair cable
Y-O to LG
O-BK to LH
BL-R to #4
G-Y to #3
S-BK to #2

The BSP you furnished does not seem to have anything that follows that wiring sequence. Am I right?


Bill
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Let me repeat myself.

BSP's are the standard.

Your situation is non-standard.

Maybe the guy who installed it didn't have a 149 adapter, or maybe he didn't want to use a 66E terminal, or maybe he was just a tinkerer.

It does not matter, electrically, how the various components are wired. It is a matter of how you would maintain (repair) a set-up the most efficiently. If the subscriber's telephone were to become so defective that it needed to be replaced, a repairman should not have to unscrew all those wires from inside the set. He should just need to do what the BSP says to do: Unplug the set and replace it.

"My" BSP does not show what you have, because, as I have said, your situation is non-standard. No pages will show your situation.

The 149 adapter is not a 2 in 1 adapter. I suspect you mean a "2 into 1" adapter, meaning, I suppose, that two telephones can be plugged into one cable. That's not what a 149 does. If you look carefully at the diagram, you will see that the 149 is used to derive the speakerphone service leads from the telephone, at the place where the station cord and the station cable interconnect, and allow access to them.

An alternative method is to run the cords from the components into the 55B control unit, if it is mounted right near the desk. It is never OK to run them into the telset.

The numbers that you have provided actually do not help us know what mounting cord leads are being used for the set-up, because those screws are blind terminals, (they have no internal connections) and are used arbitrarily. The important information would be the colors of the pairs in the cord that are connected to those screws.

A 4-type speakerphone can be powered by KSU power, but a 3-type cannot. It requires a floating supply to eliminate ground hum. On large installations, a dedicated 20-type or 30-type supply was installed to run many speakerphones in an office. Its outputs were left ungrounded and isolated from other key service power units to avoid hum.


Arthur P. Bloom
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OK, I think it's beginning to sink in with me. What I have is non-standard. What you are saying about the wires from the 666: they are all connected to non-functioning parts of the phone (with the exception of the L1 on the network, I presume) and I should check to see which wires from the 25-pair cable they actually connect to. Which is kind of what I thought in the very beginning: the phone is being used as a kind of connecting block between the 760, the 660, and the model 55 control unit, probably mounted near the KSU, right?


Bill
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Right.

L1 is a blind terminal on the network, by the way.

I wouldn't spend any more effort tracing the wires and telling us where they go. I was just interested to get a mental picture of what the previous guy did.

You need to get a 55B control unit, and a 149B adapter and rewire it correctly. Start looking on Ebay. The control units usually go for over $300 because they are made of Unobtainium.

I've got lots of adapters when you need one. Not nearly as expensive.


Arthur P. Bloom
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I thought I had a 149 adapter but will look. I was never quite sure what they were used for until this post. Will let you know. Thanks for everything.


Bill
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