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sph Offline
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You know ofcourse that comparing VOIP and TDM is wrong.
VOIP is a transport mechanism.
TDM is a modulation scheme.

Just being anal. laugh :p

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I think most of the support issues are caused by the manufacturers causing there own problems by rushing everything to market before having full confidence in the SW/HW.
Amen to that.

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At the end of the day its what the manufacturers continue to develop and support that will determine what you sell or if you need find something else to do.

Well, not exactly. It's the marketplace that determines what the manufacturers sell and if there is a demand for TDM they will manufacture it.

The dealers who believe in VoIP are in it for the money or also because they are ignorant of other alternatives (CGs). The die hard TDM believers are just being honest and looking out for their customer's best interests.

When you talk about the changes throughout the years from 1A to 1A2 to the current TDM offerings, there weren't too many people who objected because the changes were for the better. They made installation magnitudes easier as well moves and changes, and provided features that older legacy systems couldn't.

Compare that to the absolute crap that represents the current crop of VoIP systems that are a giant step BACKWARDS in ease of use, maintenance and ROI. This isn't progress, it's a lateral move by the industry to generate more money and that isn't at all surprising given the greed and bankrupt morals that permeates corporate America.

So, if it's the manufacturers that are going to determine what I sell as you say, then sure as hell I am going to find something else to do. I won't be a part of something that I feel is being dishonest to my customers.

My feeling also is this industry as we know it has it's days numbered anyway. If you think you have a future selling VoIP think again because that's not what the manufacturers are thinking. Their success relies on IT implementation companies who already have a large presence in most corporations and businesses. They want to rely on college educated and certified IT "professionals" who already have a working relationship with the customers they want to market to.

So you can push VoIP all you want, the day is going to come when the competition from the IT industry is going to put us guys with jeans and white trucks out to pasture.

-Hal


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Some good points so far, the only thing i would say is be very wary of "New" voip manufactures signing you up to sell their new system that in their words "is vastly superior to anything else on the market"

Be carefull the same snake & oil salesman from this "new voip manufacturer" will be nowhere to be seen after the install when YOUR customer is not happy as they cant make quality calls at certain times of the day.

Expect the "new Voip Manufacturer" to Throw YOU the Reseller under the bus when problems occur.

Expect the "new voip Manufacturer" to blame everyone other than their own equipment.

I've never been in favor of Unions, but I feel small Reseller interconect business owners like us need some kind of group protection in these times of changing technology.


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Hal
I have the jeans and the white truck but still think that as long as we learn the new technology and implement it into our existing product lines, there will always be a large customer base that wants the local company that speaks English and knows the needs of their client.

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What I find amusing is WHAT is required to make VOIP work reliably and all the simple little things that can bring it to its knees. This alone should give pause to someone that doesn't need VOIP. Take note, well sell VOIP and TDM systems. Luckilly I have been fortunate to work with VERY good IT personal at these locations and they "GET IT" and haven't implemented VOIP unless it was absolutely necessary after weighing everything.

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Another thing i find hilarious is the monitoring features that these newbie voip setups talk up......and actually charge a monthly fee for....

So I'm driving along I-287 and my blackberry chirps......its an auto generated email telling me that customer XYZ has lost their internet connection..........

What is the point of this? do they think the people in Company XYZ are not totally aware that they can no longer make calls.......

This feature would be like me watching someone walk across a minefield, and then shout out to them that they have just lost their leg & 9 pints of blood....after they step on a mine.....


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will always be a large customer base that wants the local company that speaks English and knows the needs of their client.

They already have that established in their IT staff or solution provider. The fact that VoIP utilizes the IT network infrastructure is the death knell for us. For any number of reasons the customer as well as the IT staff doesn't want their network to become a multiple responsibility.

If you need more evidence that manufacturers intend their equipment for the IT industry- it's no coincidence that VoIP systems are designed from the ground up to look like, operate and program like IT equipment. That's so it can be more easily assimilated into the IT knowledge base since it's something they are already familiar with. They could have packaged it and made it program and operate like traditional TDM systems, but the IT "professionals" would have a steep learning curve and if the manufacturers lost them they would have lost their foot-in-the-door because of the influence the IT people have.

I've never been in favor of Unions, but I feel small Reseller interconect business owners like us need some kind of group protection in these times of changing technology.

I've said that many times, we have no group or even a voice that represents us and makes our opinions and demands heard. We get crapped on by everything from internet sales to giving VoIP away to the IT industry.

So where are we going? If I were a young guy just starting out, this industry is certainly not something that I would consider. It would be like opening a TV repair business back in the 90's. Where are they now?

-Hal


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Hal
My point is that until a company gets to a certain level they don't have IT staff. I think that most of us do network cabling as well as standard voice already. By hiring IT people into our companies WE are the IT Staff and evolve thus getting calls not only about voice problems but data as well. I work with many local IT professionals and trade leads back forth, or hire each other as needed at set hourly rates. At some point in time I assume we will share office space to become a one call shop.

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sph Offline
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All that is true, but it still leaves a HUGE base of small companies without IT staff of any kind.

And there are smaller hybrid systems that can do both packet and circuit switching that are good starting points for both reseller and customer.

What if an SMB without inhouse CGs insists on the new thing regardless of the disadvantages?

Also don't forget where the R&D money is going these days...I don't think that (technically) Voip is going to get worse, the opposite is true.

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