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Deltron Offline OP
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In all honesty Hal I think wireless communications will be the death of both. Already the kids don't talk on their IPhones, they just text and send pictures. We've noticed a sudden and increasing spike in hang ups on our customer's voice mail systems everywhere. The only thing we can attribute this to is the new hire employees, whom are young people, won't use voice mail.

I see this even among my employees, they'll text me versus calling me. It drives me crazy because I have to put my reading glasses on to see the phone. :bang:

I didn't really expect this much animosity when I started this thread. My sole reason was to point out some observations concerning VOIP implementation for the SMB customer. It's extremely obvious from the responses in this thread, even from the VOIP supporters, that VOIP isn't the proper solution for the small business.

Actually I realize now that VOIP is not going to have the market penetration on the small side that I was concerned about. Even the supporters here seem to kick out the "it runs fine on the same network" mantra that the VOIP salesmen preach or the simplicity and reliability of small key systems.

I had to laugh at the "the system calls you when the internet goes down" comment. I attending a sales presentation at one of my customers when the VOIP saleman said that. I pointed out to him the customer would be pretty stupid to not realize their 200+ phones quit working. It seemed about as silly as having one of my TDM switches call me when a PRI goes down, as if the customer doesn't already call me and bitch on their cell phone.

I think a few things need to happen here, simplified software, programming and wiring coupled with a true universal standard for SIP. Either that or back to the model of proprietary phones and control like the TDM manufacturers. 3com, Cisco, Allworx, etc seem to do relatively well following this idea. Like the SNOM site I linked to and commented on, endless firmware and software revisions on non standardized SIP trunking and VOIP implementations will be nothing but a mess on the open system VOIP implementations.

We see this already when a company's IT guys quit and the new hires spend huge amounts of time trying to figure out just what's going on with the IT structure. Consider they are dealing with pretty much standardized OS's on standardized network layers and protocol. They're dead if they come in cold on their IP system. Does anybody remember the endless versions and revisions on the SL1? It was a nightmare trying to remember and/or document what version/revision did what and was compatible with what. I see VOIP as being on the orders of magnitude worse unless somebody someplace requires universal standards for at least protocols.

I'll say this, the telcom business never gets boring. In some regards I think the TDM/VOIP debate is sort of like the endless Chevy/Ford debate, both forgot something else (wireless, Toyota) is out there. In our world I see future generations of an instrument similar to the IPhone being a huge threat to ALL of us. We may not use or understand it much but the kids coming up will be married to such a communication device, both for personal and business use. I've already installed a couple of switches with PRI's that do nothing but reroute calls to cell phones. The voice mail is purely an auto attendant. I believe there's already a number of hosted solutions to do the exact same thing.

Oh well, in another 6 or 7 years I won't have to worry about this any more.

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I think that most of us do network cabling as well as standard voice already. By hiring IT people into our companies WE are the IT Staff and evolve thus getting calls not only about voice problems but data as well.

That's all well and good if you have the budget to hire dedicated IT people and want to become an IT company. If I was interested in IT I would have learned that myself. This is a telecom company.

My point is that until a company gets to a certain level they don't have IT staff...

...it still leaves a HUGE base of small companies without IT staff of any kind.


And my point is that those are the companies who would be better served by a TDM system but I digress.

Those companies may not have IT staff but all will have SOMEBODY available to maintain their computers and network. I had an old established customer just like that dump their Partner system that we sold them many years ago for VoIP. They never even asked us for a quote or told us what they were doing. They wanted VoIP, so their first instinct was to contact the CG who they call to work on their computers and he ran with it. Never mind that I'm an Avaya BP and could have given then an IPO. All they thought is that I'm a telephone guy and VoIP ain't telephone.

-Hal


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Just quickly I'd like to correct my smartalecky comment from earlier, TDM is a multiplexing scheme not a modulation scheme.

Other than that, comparing TDM with VOIP is still incorrect, since they refer to different things.

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We just use "TDM" as a generic term to refer to all analog and digital systems that are not VoIP. It's derived from those systems that actually do use time division multiplexing.

-Hal


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If you visualize verizon wireless as a huge pbx with 80 million wireless extension's........

Now imagine if they put Hold, Vmail, Transfere, keys on their phones......

Then imagine a smb with 30 employees having 30 of these cell phones with their main number ringing into a auto attendant in verizons cloud......

If this ever happen's there is NO need to have a phone on your desk anymore.....


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It's coming.

-Hal


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Deltron Offline OP
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Hal, it's already happening.

--Bill.

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I have a Mitel 3000 system in my office with a voip broadband module and a remote ip phone at my home in another area code (long distance). I am not using sip trunks now (I had use of sip trunks for a year as part of the beta test for the broadband module). I have regular pots lines plugged into the system. So far the remote ip phone has been functioning flawlessley. I like being able make and receive calls as if I were actually in the office, as well as no long distance charges for incoming or outgoing calls within the office area code, when I am at my home during normal business hours. I like the design that the broadband module can be added to the "TDM" system as an option, if needed. I see potential for sales of the remote ip phone feature for customers who are away from the office or have remote workers. I have not had any customer requests for sip trunking.


Bob

With all the variables involved, I am amazed when any voice and data technology works like it is supposed to.
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IP systems and VoIP trunks - 2 different animals

There seems to be allot of confusion between VoIP and IP.

IP telephony is the system run over a local (intranet) LAN and VoIP is the SIP trunk running over the internet.

SIP trunking right now is overated.

The cost of long distance with POTS and PRI is now minimal with perfect quality.

The value of IP telephony is in the applications, remote employees and remote offices.

Let's not confuse the the two.

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"The value of IP telephony is in the applications, remote employees and remote offices."

This statement seems to apply to my situation and my customer base, especially the reference to remote employees.


Bob

With all the variables involved, I am amazed when any voice and data technology works like it is supposed to.
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