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In our world I see future generations of an instrument similar to the IPhone being a huge threat to ALL of us.

I suggest that this could be a huge OPPORTUNITY. The fundamentals of voice communication won't go anywhere. Your experience with traditional voice (I'm talking in a general sense to the experienced folks on this board) can be leveraged to solve customers' problems wherever the technology goes.


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Originally posted by KLD:
Thank you, Jim, for the observation of being off topic. If you go to this thread, you may post to your hearts' content on the history and technology we are currently discussing.

Now, back on topic?

:read:
With your permission, I'd like to say that Jim misunderstood me. I was pointing out that timing IS a requirement of T-Carrier (and other circuit switching transports). Secondly ALL digital transports are binary, ie DATA, and use data protocols. Voice being sampled into a data stream at the rates everyone in telecom is used to working with, that is at 64k or 56k.

Other than that, I disagree with Hal's outlook even while I agree with his analysis. As I mentioned before, your average CG is at a loss when it comes to VOIP. They usually know nothing or very little about telecom. It's like asking somebody supervising the intercom and the doorbell to install a telephone system.
This can, and has to be communicated to the customer.
Also: the main sticking point in my experience, with traditional telephony customers looking for a change (especially the last couple of years) is the cost of business lines or other centrex-type lines from the telco. They hear the siren call of cheap internet access, then they look at their telco phone bill with all the fixed costs, taxes, etc. It's hard to convince somebody of the longer-term ROI when their bill comes due every month. And the telcos are not helping. We can all figure out why, I think.

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The CLECs around here will sell you a PRI/T1 in any configuration of voice/data for $299. We've used this against the SIP providers. Some of them will include another 10,000 minutes of LD for another $50.00.

We've heard we're the number one seller of PRI cards for the Comdial DX-120. This amazes me since we are a very small company.

Cost saving certainly isn't going to be the primary reason for VOIP around here. Where I see the slot for VOIP is for remote office applications.

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I was refering to the smaller customers that I think Hal had in mind who don't have T1/PRI access. The price point you mention can be had in NYC too. We've several customers that pay in the ballpark, but this is not the traditional T1. It's usually a pseudowire (TDM-over-IP) scheme or some such, often with dynamic allocation of channels between data and voice. It does work nicely.

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Deltron Offline OP
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Ours are provided on either a #5ESS or a softswitch. We've learned to avoid softswitches like the plague if it's a PRI we need.

The dynamic seems to be OK unless you have 56k modems or fax machines. Sometimes they cause trouble with these devices, especially the modems. We ask for them to configure the copper channels for G711 which usually works.

We've been installing PRI cards on customers with as few as five lines. It's worked well and and the customers have been pleased to have DIDs and instant off net call forwarding with no degradation in call quality. Comdial DX-120 dealers have special pricing right now on PRI cards making this an extremely competitive option if you can get good pricing from the LEC/CLEC. It really makes the argument for SIP rather pointless.

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This is just natural progression and some of you have already done this transition from 1A2 to Analog TDM (talk about a huge change) and most from Analog TDM to Digital TDM and now to Hybrids with whatever manufacturers you have been representing except now you will have to move from TDM/Digital/Hybrids to VoIP.
True - but its much easier to take when it a true phone system manufacturer making the jump to the next technology...

It's much harder to take when its some CG's who are so proud that they made a network carry voice because its something it wasnt designed to do....

They use the sip protocol which limits features, because they dont understand why anybody would need all these silly features anyway....


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Originally posted by Deltron:
Ours are provided on either a #5ESS or a softswitch.
Smartalecky comment #2:

All digital signaling happens in software, including SS7 signaling, irrespective of the of the hardware.
The difference is that the ATT (and other) SS switches are dedicated, single purpose computers for the most part, that run the switching software natively. In the case of what is mistakenly called "softswitch" the same switching software is run in different hardware as a "virtual" switching guest application.

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Deltron Offline OP
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I didn't know I offended anybody with my comment but we've had an absolute nightmare with PRI provided by softswitches. PRIs and T1s fail for no apparent reason

Don't even tell me that the "same" thing is being provided by a softswitch. Even some of the manufacturers when you call in to tech support ask you upfront if your PRI or T1 is being served by a softswitch. For a while Vertical was flat out saying they don't provide support if there's issues.

They may be getting better but they certainly aren't the same.

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No, I meant MY smartalecky comment, which was that for a while now, all telecom switches have been "softswitches". That is, the vast majority of switching functions happen is software. The difference is this:

1. In the case of ESS and other such switches, the software runs natively, usually in special purpose hardware

2. In the case of what has erroneously been called "softswitching" the switching software runs in emulation mode or virtual mode in hardware that was not specifically built for this purpose.

I'd definitely agree that PRI is a no-no in emulation, and your carrier should be the first to admit it. Outside of PRI people do use emulated DS circuits for 2 reasons, in my experience: cost and dynamic data/voice.

BTW, my FIRST smartalecky comment in this thread was to point out that comparing TDM with VOIP was wrong. That was misunderstood too. Eh, what can you do.

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Had a customer call and tell me he want a VOIP System so he could have the free long distance :rofl:

Cosmo


Rick "Cosmo" Mercure
Tri Star Telecom
Sebring, FL http://www.tristartelecom.net
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