Business Phone Systems

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
Member
Online Thinking
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
The truth of the matter is any good quality twisted pair shielded 22awg cable will do perfect for in wall microphone cabling. I personally prefer the foil shelded with drain wire type.

What will matter most is the XLR brand of connectors you use. I use nothing other than Neutrik connector. There are many brands that have copied their design, but none come close to the quality. Not even the old faithful Switchcraft line.

The final piece of the puzzle is how you assembly the connectors. Be sure to put some insulation tubing over the shield/drain wire to keep it from creating ground loops where you don't want them.

As to speaker wire, I have always just used 14 or 12 awg twisted pair non-shielded and again any good quality cable will do the job. If I'm running cable for a constant current system, I'll use 16 or 18 awg twisted pair non-shielded. Yes you can use smaller, but your really taking a chance of major signal drop and blown speakers or a fried amp.

Do not use any type of cable that looks like zip cord. If you do, your just asking for noise to be picked up by it. Save it for you home speakers if you must use it.


Patrick T. Caezza
Santa Paula, CA 93060
C-7 - Low Voltage System Contractor - Lic# 992448
Atcom VoIP Demo
VoIP Demo
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,333
Likes: 3
Member
***
Offline
Member
***
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,333
Likes: 3
I agree with your Neutrik recommendation 100% as well as your assembly.

Quote
The truth of the matter is any good quality twisted pair shielded 22awg cable will do perfect for in wall microphone cabling. I personally prefer the foil shelded with drain wire type.

Which is what Belden 8451 is. Like I said, Belden is top of the line and the difference between it and others is mainly how easy they are to strip.

Quote
As to speaker wire, I have always just used 14 or 12 awg twisted pair non-shielded and again any good quality cable will do the job. If I'm running cable for a constant current system, I'll use 16 or 18 awg twisted pair non-shielded. Yes you can use smaller, but your really taking a chance of major signal drop and blown speakers or a fried amp.

Do not use any type of cable that looks like zip cord. If you do, your just asking for noise to be picked up by it.

Well, not just "any good quality cable". One of the most important things to remember that you seem to have overlooked is that any wiring run within walls or ceilings (both microphone and speaker) must be listed to comply with code. This goes for both commercial and in a house. Unless the space is air handling (and I don't think that even enters the equation here) any cable you use must have at least "CM" or "CL2" printed on its jacket. Acceptable substitutons would be CMR, CMX, CL2R, CL2X, CL3, CL3R (and the plenums-CMP, CL2P, CL3P).

-Hal


CALIFORNIA PROPOSITION 65 WARNING: Some comments made by me are known to the State of California to cause irreversible brain damage and serious mental disorders leading to confinement.
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
Member
Online Thinking
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
What you say is true Hal and since it was said already, I didn't think it needed repeating. In hindsight, I should of said it again.

The fact is any cable you use should be rated for the use it is being put too.

Beldin 8451 is great cable, but Alphawire, Gepco and West Penn to name a few also all make great cable and all have the proper specifications.

I have always had less problem stripping West Penn cable than any other brand. The West Penn shielded cable tends to have the shield come off when your strip the outer jacket off, leaving just the twisted pair and drain wire.

In the end it's just personal prefecerance and cost


Patrick T. Caezza
Santa Paula, CA 93060
C-7 - Low Voltage System Contractor - Lic# 992448
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 261
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 261
I'm in the other camp.

I much prefer Switchcraft connectors, although I do use Neutrik for some things, mostly on adapters, and short jumpers.

If the cable is going to take abuse, I always use Switchcraft A series connectors because of the steel shells.

I have had too many Neutrik NC3MX's fail when the tab that the latch engages breaks off. (these are the ones with the slot where the latch engages, and the thin piece of metal gets bent, and subsequently broken, leading to no latch.) I have also had strain reliefs break right off if hit at the wrong angle.

I like Belden, West Penn, and Gepco cable. I also use some Mogami and Canare cable for certain portable applications.
For heavy duty stage cable, it's hard to go wrong with Belden 8412.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,419
Likes: 1
Member
*****
Offline
Member
*****
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,419
Likes: 1
tantivy, have you seen the new Neutrik NC*MXX series connectors?
They are much better than the NC*MX.


Jeff Moss

Moss Communications
Computer Repair-Networking-Cabling
MBSWWYPBX, JGAE
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 261
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 261
No, I have not.. I will have to take a look at them.

I have been happily using Switchcraft A and D series connectors since the early 80's, so it will take quite a bit of persuasion to convince me to switch.

I use them in 3, 4, 5 and occasionally 6 pin versions, and one of the things I really like is that the inserts interchange freely between shells, so I can swap them around as needed, without having to stock all possible permutations.


Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
Member
Online Thinking
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
I stopped using Switchcraft because of their cable clamps. It just doesn't cut it any more.

Never had a problem with Neutrik and it was all we used when I was in the lighting industry. I had to deal with some companies equipment that still used Switchcraft and was always fixing them.

The release lever on the panel mount connectors did have a prblem failing, but changing them out was easy without having to change the whole connector


Patrick T. Caezza
Santa Paula, CA 93060
C-7 - Low Voltage System Contractor - Lic# 992448
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,419
Likes: 1
Member
*****
Offline
Member
*****
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,419
Likes: 1
I did sound and lighting throughout high school and college...
I saw some very creative people unscrew the back of the cable connector, remove the connector, and leave the shell in the panel mount!!


Jeff Moss

Moss Communications
Computer Repair-Networking-Cabling
MBSWWYPBX, JGAE
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,716
Member
***
Offline
Member
***
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,716
I worked for RCA when it was a service company. When not installing crossbar PBX systems, I would work on sound and stage systems. Cannon connectors were all we used and cable from Belden or Alpha was the best. In the 70s, Switchcraft was the "best" XLR and that is all I used. When Neutrik first came out, I was not a fan of the plastic, but I have used their connectors and the newer style is just as good and even better, in some instances, than the Switchcraft. I do use both, depending on availability and the circumstance.

West Penn Wire is very good cable. I use it, almost exclusively, mainly because their distribution facility is local and they are priced very competitively. You-all may not remember "sweep tests" but that is the true test of a cable's worth. I have sweep tested Belden, Alpha and West Penn cables and they test out identical. A good audio technician is aware of ground loops and how to avoid them as well as how to avoid noise and hum by running cables away from potential electrical noise sources. I cringe when I get into some commercial ceilings and find a cable contractor ran audio wires parallel to high voltage electrical wiring, using the same holes in wood as the electrical wiring or, even worse, dragging cable through metal studs in the same space as the electrical cables and not using insulators or hangers. If one segregates the input from the output and keeps all of the audio wiring from laying across fluorescent ballasts and away from long parallel runs in close proximity to power cables, the audio install will work well for a long time.

Rcaman


Americom, Inc.
Where The Art And Science Of Communications Meet
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
Member
Online Thinking
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 512
Likes: 1
SwitchCraft was the industry standard before Neutrik came out, but they dropped the ball and Neutrik took over.

West Penn is is the best, quality wise and price wise. Beldin and Alpha are great products, but the price will kill you. West Penn offers the same quality, but at a better price point.

Dealing with electricians that don't have a clue about audio cable is a major pain. By the time they bring someone in that does have a clue, it's too late to re-run the cable.


Patrick T. Caezza
Santa Paula, CA 93060
C-7 - Low Voltage System Contractor - Lic# 992448
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Silversam 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums84
Topics93,738
Posts636,407
Members49,615
Most Online5,661
May 23rd, 2018
Popular Topics(Views)
Today's Birthdays
aaronazatian, bg6214, Jigger, mkpgt, willtech
Newest Members
AMS Technology C, Chrontel, RonZ1971, Michael1948, lllDez
49,615 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Toner 8
jsaad 7
Who's Online Now
1 members (Toner), 33 guests, and 13 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Contact Us | Sponsored by Atcom: Business Phone Systems | Terms of Service

Sundance Communications is not affiliated with any of the above manufacturers.
©Copyright Sundance Communications 1998-2022
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5