atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums General Telecom News Verizon and Copper Phase-Out

Seen today in Telecom Digest, a post from contributor Tom Metro, who writes:


Link to the entire post, and subsequent discussion, which will likely grow rather long in the coming days:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.dcom.telecom/ortzIMuDUIk

Jim
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The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you.

Jim
They have been doing this in NY for so me time. FIOS is there goal

In my area, Verizon has abandoned the FiOS rollout, citing loss of revenue. The community where I live won't get the service at all. Not that I'd even subscribe to it if I could, after all of the issues that our customers have had with it. The issues namely are power failure (8 hours is quite a pipe dream; more like 2-3 at best) and the absence of loop supervision.

They have stopped destroying or removing existing copper drops like they did when FiOS first came out. In new commercial buildings, they do feed them with fiber, but they still install large-count copper in parallel and use it as the primary means for service.

We see customers who order circuits, such at T1/PRI getting them delivered via copper, even in fiber-fed areas. I think that they are realizing that it isn't quite as easy as they had thought it would be to do a complete plant conversion.

One of my friends who was a splicer for Bell Atlantic was moved to Verizon's fiber crew. He and four of his co-workers were put back on copper I&M full-time late last year.

I am in at&t territory. My friend's office building was built in the 1970s. At some point they ran out of copper pairs so they abandoned the OSP in place and switched everything over to a DSC Litespan fed by fiber. The old copper is still there, but everything comes off the Litespan.

Verizon is in the process of capping FiOS. The company will support the service in areas where it has been deployed....and forge ahead where it has started the legal process. Word has it that Verizon is looking to switch to a wireless system to deliver various services. As it relates to Verizon moving everyone in FiOS areas to fiber...not going to happen. Verizon's use of "Dark Zones" prevents it. We've had FiOS for years. Phone service has been fine. My Avaya Partner ACS has no problems with FiOS. Disconnect Supervision is present & accounted for.

I think this may be the wireless system that Dex is talking about. This story in the Asbury Park Press is about V deciding not to rebuild the copper plant in Mantoloking, NJ after hurricane Sandy:

https://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013305020135

Strange thing is, if you google "Verizon Voice Link," you get a bunch of articles similar to the above, but nothing from V. Maybe they are not actively marketing it yet, or maybe they have already changed the name to something else.

Jim
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Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.

I wonder how they propose to address business customers that need multiple lines and services?

Here in Western PA, FiOS is very much the Verizon answer to ALL services. We just installed four PRI lines in an old Westinghouse motor build facility which has been converted to offices and, even though there are thousands of pairs of copper, EVERYTHING is being fed by fiber. Maybe it's because Verizon began their fiber roll out here in Western PA or for some other reason, but everything here is being fed via fiber.

Rcaman

This might be it....or something similar to it.

I believe Carl was testing one of those units or something similar.

The V web site had no picture* of the actual hardware, but here is one:

CNET Review

Looks like a plastic toy...

*Err, maybe there is a pic on the V site, but I was blocking all their scripts, so they wouldn't let me see it

Jim
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Speaking from a secure undisclosed location.

The reviews of this "technology" in the aforementioned links pretty much sum it up. We are becoming a society of people who accept poor phone call quality and equipment incompatibility. First it was VOIP (a joke in my book) and now using an already-taxed cellular network to offload the wireline industry.

I guarantee that these poor victims will succumb to this reality when there is a local emergency or on a popular calling holiday, like the new year, mother's day, etc. I've witnessed this myself on the cellular network many times.

We have recently embarked on a project for a large taxi service that places red "TAXI" phones at the front desk of most apartment and condo facilities, car dealerships and bars. Previously, they were using Verizon's Centrex lines at the rate of about $16.00 per month. Now, they have chosen to replace these lines with at&t versions of this same box for $19.99 per month. After all of the BS taxes on the Centrex lines, it comes out in the wash to me. I really don't think that they are saving any money, but the company thinks that they are. Hey, they are paying us to make hundreds of these transitions, so I'm not complaining.

The problem is that these gadgets don't provide true voltages and they are finding that many of their existing Rath Microtech autodialer phones don't work on them. By the time that they pay to replace the phones with newer ones that don't require real phone lines, I can only walk away shaking my head (after getting their signature on the work order). 48 volts? What's that?

If it sounds too good to be true, it really, really, really is.

What I keep wondering about with them getting rid of all of the hard lines. Is what are people to do during disasters when the power goes out? How many people or businesses are set up with back-up power source? I know hard lines can get knocked down, but when they are still good, you can still make calls since telephone power if provided by the phone company.

Look how bad the cell networks performed during the recent natural disasters and what happened in Boston as some examples

I would imagine that just like all other technologies that cell would continue advancing and meet whatever needs are required. I can recall many times during emergencies where landlines could not get through because they did not have the capacity to support the huge volume of calls. I don't know about any of you but my preparation plans for a natural disaster do not involve sitting by the phone and making calls. If things are so bad that power is out and cell towers are down then I will probably have bigger things to worry about.

What Tito said.

Pretty interesting how this is evolving:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/AARP-Joins-Those-Fighting-Verizons-Killing-of-Copper-124841

We seem to be a society easily sold on what is perceived to be convenience rather than reliability:

https://www.theatlanticcities.com/technology/2013/04/shame-bostons-wireless-woes/5320/

When Sandy hit northern NJ we had widespread power failures lasting 8-10 days (over 2 weeks for some people.) Besides the storm damage we have one of the worst power utilities (JCP&L / FirstEnergy) who has adopted the same maintenance plan as Verizon - don't maintain what's not broken. So with unreliable power and communications services that now require continuous power to the CPE (cellular, FiOS, cable) we are killing the reliability of our public communications network.

Subscribers served by LEC "hard lines" (we in the telephone industry call them wired lines) have no guaranty that they will have seamless service during power outages. True, the central offices have not been messed with by the cluelesscenti (yet) and continue to be the last bastion of reliability in a phone world gone mad, but in outlying areas, POTS lines are often (and more and more, recently) delivered by copper only in the last mile, and derived along the way from Lightpath or SLiC cabinets. These "improvements" are powered by local batteries that are sometimes checked, sometimes maintained, and sometimes even replaced when necessary.

The battery in a carrier cabinet of this type will work for 8 hours at average usage. The one that serves our local police department and town government buildings regularly fails at around the 8 hour mark, a great improvement over the earlier events from a few years ago during which they failed after an hour or two. Just like a car that, never driven, will never run out of gas, cabinets serving remote residential subscribers who stay off the phone during natural disasters, might keep going for days. But it's a known fact that during a disaster, phone usage goes up.

The balance between copper that fails more than optical fiber, and CO battery that doesn't fail, compared to local battery, is a constant source of discussion and worry.

I heard that this happened during Katrina. The cellulars towers only had eight hours of battery. That's why there's a push for solar power in telecom. Well, to be fair, the frugalness of the telecom world is the real reason.

Text messages go through better, as last I heard, they are transmitted through microwave links and supposedly they can be resent by the SMSC.

How well will alarm lines work through these fiber lines? Is it channelized?


This has me wondering if there's anyone still renting their telephone from the ilec, since this might end that service. It happened to my grandmother (she was renting her phone until the 1990's).

Most ILECS have stopped renting consumer telephones. There is 1 company....that I know of....that continues the practice. The phones range from Western Electric rotary dial models to more recent at&t/VTech units.

The Verizon technicians we talk with have been saying for the last few years that the upper tier management changed, and they believe "Wireless" is the future of everything. If the technology doesn't evolve to grant that dream, perhaps they'll wake up and realize that won't work out for all services.

I've read some comment, by the way, that these wireless service boxes do not qualify under normal regulation requirements, so they get away with more than they did with wireline service.

As to the "When the power goes out" thing, I'm not really sure how true that holds any more. I don't believe the infrastructure is quite what it was, in terms of the copper going right to the CO with rooms full of batteries, but, rather, there are now more objects in the way - repeater cabinets, fiber transition equipment, etc, which may make the performance of the network inconsistent with the loss of power. Since you'll never know what's between you and there, counting on it to operate in the absence of A/C power, geographically, is probably not the best plan any more.

I can see the reasoning behind their plans, though. Fiber optics are somewhat "future proof" but still require maintenance, and miles of cable, equipment, utility poles, etc, which can be skipped if the service just radiates to your end customer. As has been said, many people are satisfied with the level of service they receive wirelessly, so, why not?

My thoughts are in line with what Adam P. just said. Our nation's telecommunications infrastructure is pretty much up for dibs anymore to anyone willing to buy it. People have become so conditioned to the crappy performance of cell phones that they may truly become the new norm.

Think about the literal millions of man-hours that the Bell System spent to make massive improvements in call quality over copper plant. All of these efforts are going out the window now since the new norm is to accept poor call quality.

What a sad day we will soon be seeing.

This was in the local paper on Sunday.

https://www.delawareonline.com/view...g-disconnect-Telcos-abandon-copper-lines

What do the telcos expect businesses like where I work to do with our PRI?

SIP

We have fought the transition for years but have finally bit the bullet and are now migrating our customers to SIP.

First, it's a migration to Coax/internet/analog lines---then from that it's going to be to SIP. Those that have a system that can accept SIP trunks efficiently, then we give them an opportunity to switch, now.

It's a sad situation, but we have to stay in business.

We are installing a VoIP system tomorrow--and bought four 2X2 3/4 inch backboards. We used to go through 2X4 backboards like crazy. Had to have at least 4 or 5 in stock at all times. Now---the stuff goes up on one 2X2---Comcast or Charter Cable Modem/Router, a shelf for the VoIP system and a switch, a shelf for the UPS and a small patch panel. That's it. Everything is smaller and easier to install. No 66 blocks, no amphenol connectors---Sad....

But that's the way things are going. We just roll with the punches.

OK you have a point - our Call Manager supports SIP trunking, we elected to stay with our PRI at least for the time being. It was enough going from our 3Com system to Cisco.