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#607270 01/19/17 09:01 PM
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John807 Offline OP
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I have used Snips, Dykes and Hacksaws to cut Panduit (I didn't want to pay the price for the true Panduit cutting tool) About a year ago I was converting part of my house from copper to Pex and bought the Pex ratchet cutting tool at Home Depot under $15. Makes great straight cuts and doesn't "splinter" the Panduit. Just thought I would pass it along.
Regards,


John 807
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John807 #607272 01/19/17 09:47 PM
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Good Tip. There are several manufacturers that make good quality plastic cutters.

If you don't mind me asking, why remove the copper tubing?

Rcaman


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John807 #607274 01/19/17 10:28 PM
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Yup. I've been using a PVC conduit cutter for plastic raceway also for many years. Works well.

-Hal


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Rcaman #607276 01/19/17 11:07 PM
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The contractor who built the house used I believe it was called copper "red"? it was the thinnest walled copper that could be used by code. Anyway after many pin hole leaks (we're on a well). The last straw was when we went away for a week end and the living room ceiling was on the floor due to a whole section giving way. So it was either start replacing section by section in new copper or go pex. Due to the flexibility it was easier to feed pex through the holes after we took the copper out in sections.


John 807
John807 #607281 01/20/17 03:42 AM
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I would have suggested an electrical, rather than a plumbing, solution to the pinhole leaks. A grounding problem will cause the leaks. You should have called an electrician (one with a concave back and a convex forehead) to do a very meticulous current analysis, tracing all the existing and former wells, pipes, electrical bonds, ground rods, and low-voltage utility connections, to determine if your problem was caused by current leakage.

I have experience in this line of work, and can assure you that grounding and bonding issues can cause lots of plumbing headaches.


Arthur P. Bloom
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John807 #607283 01/20/17 05:06 AM
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Nahh, been all over grounding problems causing pinholes in copper over at the electrical forum. Doesn't happen, it's corrosion caused by minerals in the water.

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The contractor who built the house used I believe it was called copper "red"? it was the thinnest walled copper that could be used by code.

That's type M which can be identified by the red printing on it. Probably why some call it red copper. Type M is used for heating. Only DWV is thinner (yellow printing)but since it's for drainage you won't find it below 1-1/2". You would use type L (blue printing) for water supplies due to it's heavier wall. I'm surprised that any code allowed M for water lines.

-Hal


John807 #607284 01/20/17 05:45 AM
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I have to agree with Hal on this one. I once lived in a house with well water that was very corrosive to the copper pipes. The house was plumbed properly with type L copper (the blue stuff) and we had all sorts of pinhole leaks just as described above. We used to have some feeder thing on the main line that looked like a water filter but we had to put these crystals in there and it was supposed to slow down the process of corrosion. I was maybe 15 or 16 at the time so my memory may not be exactly accurate, but I think it was called a phosphate feeder? Anyway, yes type M (the thinwall red stuff) is supposed to be for hydronic heating ONLY, and type L for regular potable water. Type M is significantly cheaper, so there is a definite temptation to use it. Around here the inspector would instantly fail a house with type M used for domestic water. The pex is a great way to go. There are many less fittings required, and there's no risk of burning your house down by soldering with a torch in tight quarters. There are two main ways of attaching pex to the fittings, Crimp rings and plastic sleeves. The crimp rings require a minimal investment of 50-70 bucks in the special crimper pliers, but have the downside of being steel rings that could possibly corrode over time. Doubtful, but possible. The plastic sleeves require an expander tool which is a cordless motorized thing thats several hundred bucks, but makes MUCH better connections. Needless to say, I'm poor and own the crimpers. I also have the pex cutter that was mentioned and it does come in handy for many plastic things that I need to cut.

John807 #607286 01/20/17 01:17 PM
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John807 Offline OP
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The leaks were definately caused by minerals in the water. In the beginning we had a water softener which also puts minerals in the water and the clothes never got clean. The first plumber I had was an older guy started plumbing in the 50's really knew his stuff.
The house was newly built in '88 and from what I found out after I bought it under conditions too lengthy for here alot of shenanigans went on during the construction.


John 807
John807 #607299 01/20/17 07:33 PM
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Our local police department has two holding cells in the basement. Each is equipped with a very expensive stainless steel combination fixture, comprising a sink and a toilet. One day, the janitor noticed a bit of water on the cell floor. She mopped it up, only to find more water the next day. Eventually, both units failed and were replaced with the same type units, at a cost of $3500 each.

Then they failed again, a year later. Another $7000 of the taxpayers' money down the drain...er...mopped up.

They called a plumber. He couldn't find a problem. They called a water softener guy. He couldn't find a problem. They called a so-called "Master Electrician." He couldn't find the problem.

THEN THEY CALLED ME. I measured the current between the cold water pipes and the electrical bond. TWO HUNDRED MILLIAMPS!!! An old abandoned well, inside the basement, with no water in it, was still bonded to the electrical grounded neutral. The new well, outside the building, had never been bonded to the existing electrical service.

I did not wish to imply that all similar problems are caused by the same conditions. It was just a suggestion.


Arthur P. Bloom
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John807 #607300 01/20/17 07:36 PM
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I have heard of both situations but here, in western PA, I've only seen the situation Arthur described. That is a very real condition here and I remember the older Bell Telephone techs carrying a little meter that was probably a megger with one lead attached to a long wire that was attached to the well casing and the other probe was used to test ground and bond points in the system. The good techs always found the loose bond.

I work a lot of construction and the only crimp rings I have seen used with PEX have been stainless steel. I'm afraid of PEX because, 50 years down the road, some tree hugger will insist it causes male pattern baldness or infertility in toads. I don't want to take any chances. excited

Rcaman


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