atcomsystems.ca/forum Forums Other TDM Phone Systems ESI Telephones & Systems ESI communication servers are a ticking time bomb

I had over 25 system failures because the flashcards are corrupted. The ASC card is even worse. I no longer carry ESI and recommend all to look at other products with much more reliability. Someone posted that the Premise-based products are dead. I totally agree. ESI is focusing on cloud service which is ridiculously overpriced.I lost count on how many key employees ESI has lost within the past 3 years. It's a sinking ship and I'd be surprised if they are still around within 5 years.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You had a bad experience with the product, however, we have several hundred customers who are perfectly satisfied with the product. If installed correctly, the system is as reliable as any other out there.

Rcaman

Just curious, how many 100 and 200 communications servers have you installed? Also how many ESI cloud seats?

We have over five hundred 50s and between five hundred and six hundreed 100, 200, 600 and 1000 communications servers installed as well as IP900 as well as several hundred 20+, 128IVX 42S and 56. We are installing two 200s this week and two 1000s in two weeks. We have not sold any cloud solutions. I, personally, will try and talk the customer out of that, not because of ESI but for ANY provider.

Rcaman

You seem to be one of the lucky dealers because the several I contacted had the same issues as I. My only agenda on this message board was to share my history of continuous failures and get feedback from others because I felt I couldn't be the only exception. Interestingly enough, ESI tech support admitted that the flashcards and ASC card failures were Extensive, so I guess you dodged a bullet. Curious if you lost substantial revenue replacing model 40 phones because I replaced over 100? ESI did replace them with 48's at no cost, but it was very time-consuming to un-box, install, reprogram, label and re-package at my Labor expense. I feel ESI's focus is their cloud service, while slowly phasing out premise-based equipment. Unfortunately it's not competitively priced in my Geographic footprint. I feel SIP service is definitely a revenue generator and curious if you offer ESI's SIP service and satisfied with the quality of service? Also curious if you have any concern why many long-term ESI employees are no longer with the company?

I addressed these issues in a prior post several months ago. While Avaya and Toshiba have gotten out of the business, ESI continues to maintain a solid presence in the Digital telephone market. Most people don't fully comprehend that an ESI Communications server is both Digital and VoIP. All one needs is to license the IP features and connect.

Regarding the CF failures, ALL the system manufacturers have bad equipment runs. ESI did have a bad run of, mostly, SanDisk CF. I have not had a failure of the ones they are supplying now. Our success has nothing to with luck. When we had our first CF failure, we closely monitored every system we had in the shop for programming. We obtained the run numbers of the bad CF and we did not install those runs. ESI was gracious enough to replace the CFs, at no charge, and even paid for shipping. I remember having issues with Comdial, back before we started to sell ESI. Comdial would either deny or flat out lie that they had run issues. They were extremely reluctant to replace new, defective equipment. This is just one example, I am sure the members on this board have others.

As for the 40s, well, as stated before, every manufacture has some real stinkers. The 40s were a real miss on ESI's part. But, as you stated, they provided replacements, at no charge, and even paid for shipping. What else could we expect? Sure, the labor is an issue, but, if you stick with ESI long enough, they will provide benefits that will help cover the labor cost.

My problem with SIP and Cloud are very well known on this board. I am an ex-Bell Telephone trained technician and I was taught the most important service issue, for the customer, was clear, undistorted, audio from the telephone and to the distant party. If a customer is using telephones to help run their business, they deserve to have clear, undistorted audio. They deserve to have reliable service that is NOT dependent on some other manufacturer's flaky network equipment. We service several large health service providers as well as emergency service responders. These people MUST have good, reliable and clear communications equipment. I have not been impressed with ANYONE's SIP or Cloud services. The several I have tested all sound like the sample rates are too low or the digital signal is being manipulated so much that most quiet and detailed information is lost.

Then, there's the issue of Net Neutrality. I firmly believe that the Federal Government wants to get the huge tax windfall that could be had when the internet usage is taxed....and, believe me, it will be taxed. Then the "so called" giant savings going cloud will dissolve and what will be left is a lot of angry and deluded people.

Finally, ESI churn rate is about average. ALL their techs are here in the US and they are knowledgeable and are not reading from a canned response card that provides no help to the field technician. I started with Paul Crabb at ESI and I remember him saying that ESI was one of the best companies where he had ever worked. Sure, they are pushing the limits with tech support, but, AT LEAST, they still offer, for the most part, FREE tech support.

Over all, ESI makes a good product and, if one is willing to monitor the product, closely enough, to detect problems before they become nightmares, then the ESI product will prove to be a worthy product offering.

Rcaman

You’re obviously a fan of ESI, so more power to you. Unfortunately, my company has experienced a lot more reliability issues with ESI than yours. Like you, we made every effort to be proactive. In fact I requested ESI to provide me with the serial numbers of what flashcards were corrupted. What’s disturbing is several were replaced that crashed a few months later. So I assumed they had no idea of which ones were bad or good. I recently reported a flash drive with a serial number that matched the defective date batch and I was told they were no longer replacing them free of charge. I understand they got dealt a bad hand with the flash drives, but how do they justify the model 30, 40 and 60 phone defects. I had to replace numerous ASC cards, including 4 for one customer, which again is unjustifiable.

We have been an authorized Panasonic dealer for over 30 years and an authorized Samsung dealer for over 20. I estimate we sold over 500 systems combined. Both systems were rock solid, and never experienced failure rates like ESI. BTW, I was one of the original COMDIAL dealers, so I share your pain and the reason we migrated to Samsung.

I acquired an ESI vendor 15 years ago and that’s how we became a dealer. I estimate I sold approximately 100 ESI systems during that time. Unfortunately, the ESI failure rates were off the charts compared to Samsung and Panasonic. I patiently waited to beta the IP 900 which was removed within a year because of the customer’s dissatisfaction. You mentioned; “if you stick with ESI long enough, they will provide benefits that will help cover the labor cost” How do they cover my costs for lost references? (Which I consider priceless)

Analog service is slowly fading away and eventually customers will not have an option, so I suggest you get on board with SIP service. SIP service quality is directly proportional to its infrastructure. We have a very high success rate with SIP because we use A+ carriers with a robust network. Samsung does a great job integrating with SIP because there’s a lot we can tweak and manage with their software. In addition to a robust network, I can guarantee exceptional call quality with the following combination; good quality routers that support VoIP traffic, a public static IP address, high-bandwidth and phone systems that allow tight integration with SIP service. I have a carrier I can recommend that’s one of the largest in the world, with incredible reliability and high paying commissions if you’re interested.

Not sure where you got your information that Avaya is no longer in business? I’m aware they are restructuring their debt, but there’s no evidence that I can find that they got out of the business.

It's obvious we share different opinions and situations. Either way, I enjoyed chatting with you and wish you great success.

Rick (TELX communications)
"Our name rings a bell"

I am not a "Fan" of ESI. We are dealers and have been for going on 20 years. We also sell and service Mitel. Are there issues with ESI? Certainly. Are there things I would like them to change? Absolutely. But, for our company, we have an outstanding track record with ESI. We have many customers who have had systems installed for 10 to 15 years and we never hear from them, except for twice a year when we contact them just to see if they are still in business and if they are still happy with their phone systems. We have glowing referrals that are available to potential customers who need that extra assurance. We may be one of the few dealers that bench test every system before we install it. When we can identify a problem, we immediately let ESI know and they, without exception, they respond and work on a fix.

I am not aware of ASC failures except for a few early bad CF. I have never had an ASC hard drive failure. We have, close to 200 systems, with ASC.

For us, the 30s and 60s are very reliable and we have little, if any, failures. The 40s are another story, but, for us, ESI did right and replaced the phones.

I hope to retire before analog "slowly fades away." My experience, for our company, has been that the customer, after having several cloud and VoIP demos, were NEVER informed that their network equipment was not adequate for VoIP nor their service from their ISP was not adequate. When we do a demo, we send a network specialist to the site first to do a network survey and test the network and ISP service BEFORE we make a presentation. Without exception, we find the network and/or ISP service woefully inadequate. We then give them the option of reaching out to their IP service company to purchase and upgrade their network or we provide quotes for the upgrade. Without exception, the customer did not want to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade. Their current computers were working OK, so why spend all the extra money? Every one of the VoIP and Cloud systems that we have removed and replaced with a digital system have had serious network issues and the shysters that sold them the junk NEVER mentioned possible network problems.

Rcaman

I agree that you had a great track record with systems installed 10 or 15 years ago because the E and X class were definitely reliable. It's the communication servers introduced several years ago that we experienced high failure rates. As mentioned numerous times; defective equipment including plastic cabinets, flash drives, ASC cards and model 30, 40 and 60 phones is what bit us in the ass.

BTW; We never install any systems without doing the following; confirm the equipment ordered is correct, assemble then initialize the system, upgrade the software to the highest level then bench test for 24 hours. Additionally, every system is properly grounded and connected to a battery backup. Doesn't matter how much preparation and bench testing you do because it doesn't find hidden bugs and defects that only show up over time.

I can't explain why my ASC card failure rates are higher than yours. Especially, since we installed much less than you have. Either way, the mean time between failures were unacceptable.

We've lost priceless references and threatened with legal action while you experience glowing referrals.

My only agenda on this message board was to share my experiences and get feedback from others. I certainly didn't expect ESI to use it as an excuse to terminated my dealership because of it.

My sales being down the last couple years was the other reason. We made the decision not to sell ESI equipment until all defects were resolved. We also tried selling their cloud service but it wasn't competitive and paid less commissions than other carriers.

Ironically, we just received a call today from a customer requesting our services because their present vendor, a major ESI dealer in New Jersey announce they are no longer supporting ESI premise systems as of 2018.

My experience with ESI is they take a passive approach, instead of being proactive. They expect dealers to sell their products without any support. I haven't had an outside sales rep in over three years because most were terminated or resigned.

Rick