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Possible polarity issue
#629414 04/26/19 08:37 PM
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Hi guys,

I might have a polarity issue in my 2565 phone as it will not break dial tone. I was going to see if I could switch tip and ring for each line but the terminals are connected to the board of the phone so I would have to cut the wires. Any way to fix the polarity issue on the network card?

I would fix it at the KSU but I do not think I have enough wire left to do that.

Thanks Brian





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Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629415 04/26/19 08:41 PM
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reverse tip and ring on your feed into the ksu


Retired phone dude
Re: Possible polarity issue
justbill #629416 04/26/19 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by justbill
reverse tip and ring on your feed into the ksu

Or easier still at the NIU.


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Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629418 04/26/19 11:23 PM
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If you are only having problems with only this one phone and all the lines are reversed, swap the wires coming from the hook switch that connect to "C" and "F" on the network in the phone. At least if I'm reading the BSP right it should be those two....The BSP I'm reading shows them as blue and white, but I know I've seen one of them being green before.... Anyways, it's the tip and ring coming from the keyswitches through the hook switch and into the network. That will reverse the polarity for all the lines in the phone.

I'd post a picture of the BSP but I'd need Dean to help me out again.

Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629420 04/26/19 11:41 PM
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Here is the BSP if you need it...easier posting the link than a bunch of images.

BPS 502-543-406

and the LK model


Dean
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Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629422 04/27/19 12:41 AM
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Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629543 05/02/19 03:38 PM
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Thanks guys,


Thanks for the help and thanks for the BSP's will work on the phone this weekend.

Thanks Brian

Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629570 05/03/19 01:43 AM
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There are lots of reasons that a phone can't break dial tone.

First, we need to know more information and what "version" of CBDT you are reporting:

1. I hear tones, they sound correct, but CBDT
2. I hear tones, they don't seem to sound right.
3. I hear wavering tones as I push the buttons
4. I hear a "tink" sound when I push the buttons
5. I hear a click when I push the buttons

additionally...

6 all the lines on the one phone CBDT
7 some of the lines work, but some CBDT
8 I have more than one 2565 and this one CBDT but the other(s) work OK
9 the phone is / is not a WE phone
10 I have checked the polarity, voltage and current of the line(s) in question
11 I have connected a butt set directly to the line(s) at the
a. NID
b. KSU input T&R
c. KSU output T&R
d. T&R terminals on the key in the telephone
...and here are the results of these tests:


So, as the members above have suggested, before you start moving wires around inside a factory-wired, unmolested phone...

(and what do you mean by "...the terminals are connected to the board of the phone so I would have to cut the wires." ? The mounting cord conductors in a typical 2565 are terminated with spade lugs, which are fastened under the screw heads on the key,)...

I would suggest that you do your diagnosis in a scientific and methodical manner.

But tell us the answers to the above sequence of observations. The answer might be as simple as a dirty contact on the common switch of the dial. I have been repairing 2565 sets for 52 years, so I'm confident that I can help you.

JUSTBILL's suggestion is the least invasive and would be my first choice, if I didn't have a butt set (or a 2500 set with test leads) handy. Installing a polarity guard is not a repair. It is a work-around that is not necessary if you follow the logical trouble-shooting scheme explained above.


Arthur P. Bloom
"30 years of faithful service...15 years on hold"

Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629614 05/03/19 11:51 PM
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Hi Arthur,

Thanks for the help.... To answer your questions.

I hear tones, they sound correct, but CBDT and this only happens on the 4 lines, intercom line work fine.

This phone is a WECO 2564 and I have swapped phones and other phones work fine.

Will check the voltage and current this weekend.

I don't have a butt set but I did rig up a regular phone and tested the lines at the KSU and it work just fine.

The spade lugs are attached to the connector board, I have attached a photo.

[Linked Image]


Thanks Brian

Last edited by morephones; 05/03/19 11:52 PM.
Re: Possible polarity issue
morephones #629618 05/04/19 12:52 AM
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They took the 6 wires for a pickup key, and instead of a single spade tip for each wire, they made a piece of plastic with 6 spade tips molded in. This made it faster and easier for the factory worker to assemble the phone, as they just put these strips under the bank of screws and tightened them all down.

You could loosen all of the screws for that bank, take them all off, snip the plastic between the 1st and 2nd, and the 2nd and 3rd, then put them back down swapping the position of the 1st and 2nd, now free, spade tips, but PLEASE DON'T DO THAT

Do you have a volt meter? Check the polarity of the non-working line vs. the working lines.

It is highly likely that you have Tip and Ring reversed at the block for all 4 lines but not for the Intercom, and the other phones you have tested have polarity guards either built into the touch tone pads or installed as an adjunct.

We never used them to correct for sloppy wiring, we used them for GTE central offices that reversed polarity of Tip and Ring when supervising, which ended up not letting you generate DTMF once your call connected. This was in the hey-day of MCI and Sprint, where you had a slew of local access numbers, and had to input your account code and destination telephone number after the access number answered.

Last edited by Touch Tone Tommy; 05/04/19 12:53 AM.
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