sundance-communications.com/forum Forums General General Telephone & Systems Information Questions about buying a new system

I am looking to buy a new phone system with 75 phones for 4 locations (metro Wash DC). I have looked at Zultys, Shoretel, Avaya IP Office, Mitel 3300 and Cisco. I am having a hard time getting my arms around the features and hardware/software requirements of the various systems. On most of the systems, I have gotten a 1-3 hour 'demo' but it is not enough information to make an intelligent decision. My questions are:

1) It is a little late in the game now, but should I have started by asking the vendors to respond to a 'RFP' document?
2) Since I did not started with a RFP, can I now generate a list of features/functionality - and ask the vendor to sign off on it?
3) For those companies that do not post administation manuals on their web site, can I ask the vendor to provide a manual so that I may read it prior to making a decision?
4) Worst case scenario - the phone system has serious flaws of any sort. Can I get an 'acceptance period' of 30, 60, 90, etc days during which I can have them remove their system if I don't like it? If the new system was unsat for any number of reasons and I had to quickly replace it, would I be out that entire cost without recourse?
5) I will be using point to point T-1's to connect my sites. If I don't let the pbx vendor act as the agent to purchase those circuits, am I opening myself up to more possible finger pointing should their be circuit related issues? Same question regarding upgrading routers and switches. My preference would be to negotiate my own contracts and use a separate data company.

I guess what I am really asking for are insights on common industry practices in the above areas when buying a system of this size. Your insights are greatly appreciated - Richard

1) If you haven't bought it yet why couldn't you do an RFP? Should weed out peopl ethat aren't serious in getting your business.

2) Heck ya. Especially if you are buying into an IP system. Don't get caught into the crap of needing up grade your entire network and routers in never-ending upgrades because you can't get voice quality worth a crap.

3) Admin manuals are something controlled generally through an agreement with the manufacturer. That may be something they cannot give to you without actually buying a system. Probably will be different between different systems.

4) Good luck getting IP systems to do this my friend (and read the fine print). Remember once integrated on YOUR network the voice quality issues will be your baby, unless you are putting in a dedicated VOIP network on seperate wiring.

5) I don't see that as an issue. It's pretty black and white whether a T1 circuit is working correctly. If you are using dedicated T1's why would you network via IP with voice then?

Seems like you are pretty straight-forward small/mid-size account with networking. If I were you I would be concerned about 911 (emergency call issues). Be concerned about IP and MAKE them prove to you that they will make it work without you spending godly amounts of money to fix it with never ending updates. Make sure you are able to fax/modem between the sites via the network...flawlessly. Good luck, remember you are making a decision for the next 10 years no sense in rushing in and losing your job over not asking for a few things.

Richard:

Is there a reason you are looking at an IP system as opposed to maybe a hybrid that uses both TDM and VoIP where it's really necessary? Really, the only application where VoIP is REQUIRED is to tie offices together or support teleworkers. Using a system like this keeps the cost down, is much more stable and less likely to leave you dead in the water a year or so later.

These systems work great on point to point circuits, but they can also be used with traditional DSL or cable modem service.

If it were my money, I would hold off on buying a 100% IP system; hybrids are the way to go these days. Just my opinion.

As for the RFP issue; you hold the cards at this point and are well within your rights to change the proposal requirements. If you are a government agency and you have already started the process, that might be different. Still, you haven't purchased anything or signed a contract with anyone, so I think an RFP is an excellent idea. I wish all of our new system customers followed your line of thinking. We do a lot of systems in the DC area and have found that about 90% of the problems we encounter are due to the customer's misconception of the features they require. It's the old "garbage in, garbage out" but if your requirements are clearly stated, in writing, it greatly reduces your chance of not getting what you expected.

As for the acceptance period, some government proposals we have bid had a thirty day acceptance period, but I don't think I have seen one with 60 or 90 days. That's a bit much since it's not likely that any installation issues will be discovered beyond 30 days. If it's installed correctly, it will work right from the start and if anything isn't right, it can easily be corrected with programming adjustments.

------------------
Ed
---------
How come there's always enough time to go back and fix it a second time?

[This message has been edited by ev607797 (edited June 22, 2005).]

Just my 2 cents, but I have to agree with the above points. If you are going with point to point T1s anyway, why go VOIP? Go with a hybrid. I have heard WAY too many horror stories of the endless cycle of upgrades that Coral referred to. After many months and many thousands of dollars, voice quality is still garbage.
As far as the RFP, go for it. If they want your business, make them do the leg work to get it.

------------------
Avaya Telephone Repair
Toshiba Telephone Repair

Richard,

Unless you signed on the dotted line, it is never to late to back up and start over. If you don't you could end up wasting thousands of dollars and possible your job. I'm not going to tell you the advantages of one system or another, there are plenty of people on this board who are smarter than I am that can speak to this.

1. Have put together a requirements document? It appears that you have put some thought to what you want, but have you documented what your company's telecommunications needs are based on how you do business? Example connecting your 4 sites together, why? Interoperability, cost or something really neat to do.
2. Now that you know what your have to have put this requirements document into a Request for Information (RFI) to various vendors. Let them tell you how they would solve your telecommunications needs. This should fill in some of the blanks of between features and functionality that you need and those that are nice to have. You will start to get an idea of budget and what the implementation process is going to look like. Plus you will start to weed out those companies that aren’t serious about your telecommunications needs.
3. Use the RFI for your RFP. You should already know what you want, and those still in the game will know how to address this proposal in specific detail making the selection process easier.

DO NOT FORGET REFERENCES & ON-GOING SUPPORT. Like these good folks have said, save thousands on the front-end just to spend ten times that on the back end.

Finally, bad idea using the cpe vendor as your carrier agent. Most times it’s problematic, sometimes nightmarish.

This is just my 2 cent, I'm sure you already have thought of most of these suggestions. Good Luck, and if I can help, please e-mail me.

Peace,
Chris


[This message has been edited by MTC Telcom (edited June 23, 2005).]