sundance-communications.com/forum Forums TDM Business Telephone Systems Avaya - Lucent Telephones & Systems Magix vs IP 400 .. why would you recommend one over other?

Got a large medical facility who's doctors are extremly good friends... they trust me implicitly and will buy what I say and I am trying to balance cost and features.

They have a Partner system and outgrew it. Their number 1 need is call queing at the nurses station. We talked about Magix and IP 400 today.

The obvious Magix thing is that it is new equipment but discontinued. But they reuse all sets and are in it for cheap. Meets both needs. Easier to maintain and I got all the parts for repairs in stock.

IP.. Obvious going forward product. I need about double the cost as I need to buy a back up processor to have on hand. We have done little IP as well. No big IP needs like remote stations, etc. Growth and Queing are needed.

That is the picture.

Now the question: What features does the IP have over the Magix (besides remote phones) that a typical medical office would use?

Since these are my friends, I need to also justify the extra cost to myself. I am breaking even here, they are that close. So, what am I missing... I feel I can service either product for 15 plus years... there is so much magix around.. and I feel the magix is slightly easier for my techs to work on cause we are experienced.

What do I need to consider here?

Thanks

Brian
If you can supply new MAGIX equipment and the customer understands it has been discontinued, go for the MAGIX.

I would go with the IPO, but thats just my take.
Could save the customer some money with SIP in the future.

My turn:

The Merlin Magix is a very reliable system. It has been around, (in one form or another), for many years and will continue to exist even though it is no longer in production.

The Office IP will provide the ability to save money on the monthly phone bill as well as the ability to link remote sites.

Which one to go with depends on the customer's projected needs. If there is no chance that IP-based features will be needed, I would go with the Magix. Otherwise, go with the IP Office.

May I, please?
I would say there are some features that Magix never would have cause it absolute. We are talking about soft phones, hot deskin,good DID conversion table, remote extensions without another on site system, IP Trunking and IP telephones but if your doctors don't want all of it Magix is the best way to go. You still can have Unified Messaging, you still can have external Forwarding and VM Notification in case of Emergency and you still can have different Auto Attendants for different doctor's Group. DID? You can change your numbering plan to match it or you can ask your provider to send you whatever you need to recieve. So I would say Magix but if you choose IPO get POTS lines or PRI do not go with IP product.

I'll second Dexman's opinion, with a slight lean toward Magix.

SIP is interesting technology, but I wouldn't yet want it at any site that absolutely positively needed it working 24 hours a day. A doctor's office might need to urgently call EMT.

I don't want to mislead you: IPO can work without SIP just fine. It's just that I think you should take the SIP-based savings out of the picture, regardless of which platform you choose.

Now I only been doing this for 31 years, but here's my take, and I am a Avaya Dealer. If theres no near future needs for IP stay with the Magix and wait till the VOIP shakeout dust has settled, the Verizon Vonage battle may have far reaching implications as my insider say Verizon may sue many many VOIP services for infringement. This could be a huge battle in the next 5 years. The Licensing costs of IP systems and the up front expense seems to be a bit heavy in a poor economy. Unless you are looking at a call center or some property that has big PRI, or T-1 needs I would stay with Magix for the next 4 to 6 years. It would be money saved for the new wave in IP coming in the next 5 years.

The Magix is almost trouble free, and cheap by comparison.
I like VOIP but I have seen to many providers screw things up and it costs me a truck roll on a warranty system only to get into a he said she said war with the VOIP provider till they finallly admit they caused the problem. I also have the Mitel ICP's in Hotels...

There will be Magix parts for the next 20 years if the partner is any indication. At least ten years anyways......

I might be a little late in the game for this one but here's my 2 cents... I just installed an IP office in a dr's office with 26 phones, 6 fax/modems and 11 trunks on a PRI.

A couple of the features that the people there like best that the Magix will NOT do is:
Caller ID NAME (magix with pri does not give name) and Park slots.

They are used to using key systems when they had two seperate offices with only 3-5 lines each. They expected to be able to pickup an incoming call from almost anywhere in the office and then place the caller "on hold" until the right person could take the call. Since people are rarely at their own desk in the office, transfering calls is normally not an option.

The way I have their IPO setup, incoming calls ring to a groupring call group so anyone can answer. Then each phone has six park buttons for park slots 1-6. Instead of placing call on "hold" they place the caller into an available slot and use the set page feature to let the right person know there is a call waiting. That person can take the call from any other phone in the office.

As for the Caller ID NAME, it's not a big deal but they like the fact they can easily identify the call without trying to remember the number.

As a side note, I installed a Magix at the same office temporarily when they were having a strange issue with the IPO and they did not like the way it worked compared to the IPO.

Hi ipofficeguy,
Your info is all wrong. Magix capable of showing Caller ID and Name depends on how you are using your button programmed for CID and Name and Magix has a Parking feature as well. So you have to read Manual. That is why your customer did not like Magix cause you didn't know how to program and use it. Sorry for such harsh respond. Please do not feel offended. :toast:

It also depends on the provider and the type of caller ID service ordered.

With Plain-Jane loop-start trunks, most service providers do offer either name & number or just number.

Some providers, even with a PRI, will send only a calling number.

Ipofficeguy IS right; the Magix cannot display Caller Name on a PRI, even if it's available from the carrier. Also, Group Ring on a Magix is limited to eight extensions and has even further limitations on Group Calling if it involves remote members. These are just a few of several (small, but nagging) areas where IP Office trumps Magix.

This is going to be a showdown between functionality and cost. In most cases I could make a case for Magix any day of the week and twice on Sunday. However, if the customer has specific needs that tax or exceed the limitations of the Magix, I don't see how BrianS would have any choice BUT to go with an IP Office.

Hi Tim, this is right from Magix manual.

" The system also supports Calling Party Name, which is part of Caller ID. Calling Party Name does what its name suggests--it provides the name of the calling party. A button can be programmed on the multiline 4400-Series, MLX, TransTalk 9031/9040, Business Cordless 905, ETR, and MLS telephones to toggle between Calling Party Number and Calling Party Name. When the button's LED is lit, Calling Party Name and not Calling Party Number information appears and will continue to appear until you press the button again (the LED turns off)."

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the info that Vad listed above only applies to calls that arrive on caller ID enabled POTs lines. :confused:

Caller ID name will work with POTS lines, NOT PRI!

My name might imply I only know the IPO but I've installed and worked on plenty of Magix/Legends before the IPO came around.

I thought that might be the case. Thanks for clarifying! :thumb:

Also I am very aware of the parking features of a Magix AND the limitations of those features.

For the average business, a Magix is a very suitable system but like I said before, some of the features fo the Magix are too limited compared to the IPO for some customers.

From Rel.2.5 & later Avaya claims that Name is available if available from provider. That what I found in the Manual.

From experience,
IPO with PRI set to ATT Custom, shows Caller ID name and number. Plugged same PRI with no changes from provider into a Magix Rel 4, and no caller ID name. (even with using the toggle button)

I think the manual is talking about caller ID names being delivered on a regular POTs line. :confused:

As Brian mentioned, a queing feature for the nurses' stations is his customer's most urgent need.
Can queing be provided by either system?

Page 154 (Adobe Acrobat page 182) of https://support.avaya.com/elmodocs2/magix_r3/730110_1.pdf states "Calling party number only and not calling party name is available with PRI ANI service."

Thank you to 5Etek-mike for getting the thread back on track. The queueing thing is apparently important, and the Magix does have some fine queueing capabilities.

I can set three levels of alarms (based on the number of calls in queue); I can play music or messages for those waiting and provide a "#" opt-out for anyone who would rather leave a voicemail than wait further.

Group Supervisor phones--properly defined in "operator positions"--have the ability to monitor exactly who is logged into the queue and who isn't via button LEDs. That piece comes in handy when you have individuals who pretend to take calls while talking to their friends instead.

The key limitation rears it's head when you try to add a queue member that is not local. With a networked Magix (and I don't know if this applies to BrianS) the limitation is 20 local members and ONE remote member. Yep...that's the big ouch. And that limitation isn't anywhere on the IP Office radar.

And yes the IPO also has some nice queueing capabilities. Many of them are similar to the Magix.

The real question is exactly how does the customer plan on using the system. Either system will handle their needs quite well but each system has it's own quirks and limitations.